Can I use a CSV on this without pulling the pump?

[Boerdoc]

I am using my well to fill the cistern and it is then pumped into the house by a separate pump in the cistern. The pump in the well is a 3/4 hp 15 gpm pump 80 feet down. The pressure switch in the cellar controls when the cistern needs water and turns on the pump. I would like to put in a CSV to reduce cycling of the pump but I do not want to have to pull the pump to do so. Can I put one in the cistern or cellar where I can access it?? Or does the water need to flow through it with the pressure switch on the other side?

I need to replace the pressure tank as it is waterlogged as well. That is not a problem. Except for sizing. Go big??

BTW the dole valve is there because the well only puts out 3.5 GPM and I do not want to pump dry. I have a cycle sensor in place and that is how i found out about the flooded tank. Multiple recycles!!!

 

[Reach4]

When you replace the well pump, you will need a different pump.

Usually you would not need a pressure switch or pressure tank on the cistern-filling part. The pump would be controlled by the float switch. The pump would be sized to keep the maximum pressure low enough. Yes, you could use a CSV, but with the smaller pump in the future, the need for the pressures switch and tank and CSV may go away.

I don't know if it would be better to have the CSV before or after the tee to the cistern.

I am not a pro.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

I agree with Reach. If you had a float switch instead of a float valve, you would not need the pressure tank/pressure switch and the well pump would not cycle. A CSV can also stop the cycling, but it would need to be installed before the tee to the tank. It can be installed in the well, at the well head, or anywhere before that tee to the pressure tank. You could also just install the Dole valve before the tee to the tank, and that would also eliminate the cycling.

Usually the well pump is just controlled by a float switch and run through a Dole valve to limit the cistern fill rate. Then the CSV/pressure tank/pressure switch are on the other pump that feeds the house.

 

[Boerdoc]

Thanks for the assistance. I have to have a float valve in the cistern because my water table during the wet winter and spring is above the cistern and by gravity water flows into the cistern and actually will overflow if the valve does not shut it off. During this time of the year we do not use the cistern as silt leaks into the tank and clouds the water. A bypass system lets us use the well directly which handles the house needs just fine during the wet season. We have a good whole house filter tank that tries to keep the water clean but colloidal silt is just too fine. This precludes putting the dole valve before the tee.
Any thoughts on how to do this? I just might have to pull the pump!! Ugh.

(All the lines are below frost depth so digging is no good?

 

[Valveman]

You really need a Cycle Stop Valve in the well and it would solve ALL those problems. How about using a float switch in the cistern, set lower than the float valve so the float valve always stays open. You can put a cut off valve just before the pressure tank and a toggle switch to transfer control from the pressure switch to the float switch. When using the cistern you toggle the pressure switch off, the float switch on, and close the valve to the pressure tank. Just switch it back when you want to work off of the pressure tank.

 

[Reach4]

How about a float valve and float switch both? But you would want to make sure the float valve shut off before the float valve. You would probably also want a relief valve in case the float switch failed.

Do you have a pitless adapter, or a pit? If you have a pit that floods, get a pitless adapter and your casing extended above ground and above flood level.

 

[Boerdoc]

I have a pitless adapter that is under the frost line.

I get the idea of a float switch as well as the float valve. I have a 24v line to the cistern that I can use to put power to the switch and return to a relay that carries the 220v power to the well pump.

So to fill the cistern I would toggle to the relay/float switch control and shut off the pressure tank.
To use the pump directly to the house I would toggle to the pressure switch/pressure tank and the float VALVE would close off filling the cistern.

The float switch would only control pump power. And I would keep all the water lines as is?

I already have the CSV on the system that goes from the cistern to the house.

 

[Valveman]

By George I think you have it.

And since the float valve is higher than the float switch, it will still keep the cistern from overflowing when the artisan water comes in.

 

[Boerdoc]

Thank you. You guys are so helpful. I appreciate it tremendously.
Any ideas on where to get the relay and toggle switch. The relay would be a 240v with 24 v coil and the toggle is DPDT on-off-on, Correct?

I think I must have the most complicated water system known to man but as long as it works, I am happy.

 

[Reach4]

You can alternatively use a 240 VAC float switch. That can carry enough power to power the pump. http://www.sjerhombus.com/ses-controls-float-switches.php

 

[Valveman]

You can use just a regular light switch for the toggle. And a relay with a normally open and a normally closed contact can be found at Grainger or someplace like that. Wire the pressure switch though the normally closed contacts and the float switch through the normally open contacts. That way when the light switch is on and the relay energized, it will run off the normally open contacts for the float switch. When you turn the light switch off and de-energize the relay, the normally closed contacts will let the pressure switch be in control.

 

[Boerdoc]

A relay like this one for switching between the 2 systems? And a separate one for the float switch.

How do I make the connection between the 2 systems going out to the pump. Is there a problem with the power going back to the other circuit if I just use a junction box and wire connectors?

 

[Valveman]

Yes that will work. You just run a wire from the relay on the float switch through a normally open set of contacts and a wire from the pressure switch through a normally closed set of contacts. Then just wire power through the light switch to the coil on the relay. This way only one circuit at a time has control, and which one depends on if the light switch is on or off.