Can I convert an old water softener to an iron curtain?

[nickelmore]

I have an older timed Springsoft International Dominator water softener that is no longer working.

It was in the house when I moved in 25 years ago and has a note on the timer that indicates it was replaced in 1989 so I think its been a good unit.

On a private well in Northern Illinois with a hardness of 41, an iron of 2.5 PH of 7, solids at 750, no bactiria or other nasties according the county lab test. 2 people in the house 1.5 baths 2 bedrooms (1 for little grandkids)

After much reaserch and confusion I think I am looking at a Helenbrand E3 4800K unit and probably have a drip tank for some sort of iron cleaner.

Also looking at a RO system (still reaserching brands ) to replace my $50.00 per month bottled water bill.

Most everyone I talked to said with 2.5ppm of iron that I would need an iron curtain AND a watersoftener, basically doubling the cost. I don't have the funds for that currently and looking at installing this myself . Budgeting wise I figure $1000.00 for the softener and 300 for the RO system, $100 for new suppleies.

What I was thinking is I could repourpose the old watersoftener with some iron removal resin and put it before the watersoftener. I could probably set it to backwash every 3 days with minimal amount of salt.

I have the room to have both systems and both brine tanks.

Just looking for everyones opinion.

Thanks.

 

[Bannerman]

The SpringSoft website currently show mostly Clack brand control valves on their systems. Clack didn't exist 30 years ago when your system was assembled. While you may wish to post some photos of your current equipment, how many more years do you expect it will function as an iron reduction system? You already said it is no longer working as a softener.

There are numerous methods to reduce iron. 2.5 ppm is substantial and although a water softener may be utilized, a softener is not an efficient nor appropriate iron reduction method especially when the iron quantity is that high.

"Iron Curtain" is a brand trade name which utilizes iron reduction media along with AIO (air injection oxidation) to first oxidize the iron to a Ferric state and then remove the oxidized solids.

The most current media for iron reduction is Katalox Light which could easily replace water softener resin. A water softener valve may often be altered for AIO by replacing the Drain Flow control and the brine inlet with an air inlet valve, 'May' depending on the specific valve. You will also need to indicate the total capacity of your current softener or provide the dimensions of the resin tank. If there is insufficient media, the results will likely be less than desired.

Other methods include Chlorine or Hydrogen Peroxide injection either independent of Katalox Light or in addition to. While AIO is often effective, it will make the water 'airy' which many people find objectionable.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ditttohead]

Iron reduction ahead of the softener would be an ideal solution but with that high of hardness, your system will be regenerating frequently so using a softener would be OK, but certainly not recommended. You would basically be setting the softener to 55-60 GPG hardness and I would highly recommend regular cleaning with a few pounds of citric acid. The drip style cleaners are ok but I am doubtful it would drip enough for your iron levels. The idea is to acidify the brine. Since your system will likely be regenerating every couple of days, the amount of acid that will get dripped into the brine tank will be minimal.

 

[nickelmore]

Thanks guys, to be more clear. I am on well water. What I am thinking is to rebuild this older softener by replacing the softner and putting it in front of a new Hellenbrand which is sold by a local dealer at self install price of $1000.00. So the question is "Is there anything I can do to convert this older unit that would be benificial to my water?

I am planning on replacing my 2 inch x 10 whole house filter with a 4 inch x 10 or 20 with a 30 to 50 micron filter at the point the well comes into the house between my pressure tank and the softener.

The tank size is like 9 x 45 it has a coating on it so it is probably slightly smaller.
This unit has been installed since I bought the house and worked fine for many years. I figure it was time to get something more efficient.

I am also looking to either put an RO system or Carbon filters after the water softener for drinkin water so I can get rid of my bottle water bill.

 

[nickelmore]

Iron reduction ahead of the softener would be an ideal solution but with that high of hardness, your system will be regenerating frequently so using a softener would be OK, but certainly not recommended. You would basically be setting the softener to 55-60 GPG hardness and I would highly recommend regular cleaning with a few pounds of citric acid. The drip style cleaners are ok but I am doubtful it would drip enough for your iron levels. The idea is to acidify the brine. Since your system will likely be regenerating every couple of days, the amount of acid that will get dripped into the brine tank will be minimal.

Thanks I was using a drip meatheod and Iron out every few months on the old system.
How many pounds of Citric Acid and how often would you apply?
What is a good source for CA in bulk?

 

[blaze4545]

I am planning on replacing my 2 inch x 10 whole house filter with a 4 inch x 10 or 20 with a 30 to 50 micron filter at the point the well comes into the house between my pressure tank and the softener.
After the pressure tank install a 4.5"x20" 50/5 micron Dual Gradient Filter.

The tank size is like 9 x 45 it has a coating on it so it is probably slightly smaller.
This unit has been installed since I bought the house and worked fine for many years. I figure it was time to get something more efficient.
Too small for air injection/ iron filter.

Make it a 5 micron backwashing sediment fitler?
Buy a half bag of Nextsand/ Filter AG Plus, 15lbs of gravel and a 3GPM DLFC


I am also looking to either put an RO system or Carbon filters after the water softener for drinkin water so I can get rid of my bottle water bill.
Would not drink the water unless you have a U.V system with a 5 Micron filter.
Carbon filters can be a breeding ground for bacteria if not maintained properly.

[/QUOTE]

 

[nickelmore]

I am planning on replacing my 2 inch x 10 whole house filter with a 4 inch x 10 or 20 with a 30 to 50 micron filter at the point the well comes into the house between my pressure tank and the softener.
After the pressure tank install a 4.5"x20" 50/5 micron Dual Gradient Filter.

The tank size is like 9 x 45 it has a coating on it so it is probably slightly smaller.
This unit has been installed since I bought the house and worked fine for many years. I figure it was time to get something more efficient.
Too small for air injection/ iron filter.

Make it a 5 micron backwashing sediment fitler?
Buy a half bag of Nextsand/ Filter AG Plus, 15lbs of gravel and a 3GPM DLFC


I am also looking to either put an RO system or Carbon filters after the water softener for drinkin water so I can get rid of my bottle water bill.
Would not drink the water unless you have a U.V system with a 5 Micron filter.
Carbon filters can be a breeding ground for bacteria if not maintained properly.

[/QUOTE]
Thanks

"After the pressure tank install a 4.5"x20" 50/5 micron Dual Gradient Filter."
Would this restrict the new water softener too much? I think I found one, any reccommendations on a good housing?

Make it a 5 micron backwashing sediment fitler?
Buy a half bag of Nextsand/ Filter AG Plus, 15lbs of gravel and a 3GPM DLFC

Same question would this restict too much for proper Hallenbrand softener?

So in order of flow

Well

Pressure tank "Tee'd:

4.5 x 20 sediment filter 50/5 micron

Gravel bed / Filter from old softener

48K Hallenbrand water softener

RO system with UV l

I also had the water tested at the local county lab and came back with the same hardness and no bactira.

 

[blaze4545]

Every time you add a filter system, your pressure will drop a small amount.

Actually, I would suggest putting the big blue filter after your water softener. The Hellenbrand Clack valves should not need a filter before the softener
unless you have high levels of sediment.

I just wanted to clarify that you were not installing anything before your pressure tank unless it was a mesh filter.

The nextsand type medias are fairly heavy and you will notice more of a pressure drop than with a cartridge filter. Not enough to impact the water
softener though.

 

[Reach4]

I would note if the hot water has more H2S smell than the cold. A powered anode can help that while protecting as well as a magnesium anode would.

I would sanitize my well and plumbing. That may help a lot, at least for a while.

If you did want to convert that softener, I have some ideas. You would have to increase the backwash rate. You might put a solution tank in place of the brine tank, although I guess you could just use the brine tank as a solution tank. Hmmm. With my H2S+Iron system, I have Centaur Carbon. Then somehow the solution pumped up would have some chlorine in it. Whether you could put a long life chlorine tablet in the bottom of the tank and get a proper dose, I don't know. If you measured an amount of liquid bleach into the solution tank every 3 days, that would work too. My 10 inch tank uses 5 gpm. Your 9 inch tank would use about 4 gpm for the same gpm per area. So the controller would be set up for 13 inch softener tank, which backwashes at 4 gpm. I think the piece to change is called a Backwash Control Plug. My system regenerates every 3 days.

Some would prefer Katalox Light media. That would backwash at about 6 gpm.

Usually a 14 inch softener backwashes at 5 gpm, and a 16 inch softener backwashes at 7 gpm. I think KL bed expansion between 25% and 45% is good, and 35% might be nearly ideal. https://www.softenerparts.com/Backwash_Control_Plug_25F_p/ap25f.htm I don't know if you could get enough flow for KL.

It may not need the chlorine, so you could plug that port. However I suspect it would benefit from the chlorine too.

I think your softener uses an Autotrol 155/440. https://www.softenerparts.com/Autotrol_Series_155_made_between_1971_1996_s/36.htm
is one place to find a manual.

I am not a pro.

 

[nickelmore]

Every time you add a filter system, your pressure will drop a small amount.

Actually, I would suggest putting the big blue filter after your water softener. The Hellenbrand Clack valves should not need a filter before the softener
unless you have high levels of sediment.

I just wanted to clarify that you were not installing anything before your pressure tank unless it was a mesh filter.

The nextsand type medias are fairly heavy and you will notice more of a pressure drop than with a cartridge filter. Not enough to impact the water
softener though.

Thank you, Currently the pressure tank is first off of well and pressure switch which is on a 'T" to a 2 x 10 whole house 5 micron filter that I hae to change every month due to ferrous iron? The whole filter is caked with it then the water softener and house.

The dealer suggested that I increase it to at least a 30 micron so there is little resriction.

 

[nickelmore]

I would note if the hot water has more H2S smell than the cold. A powered anode can help that while protecting as well as a magnesium anode would.

I would sanitize my well and plumbing. That may help a lot, at least for a while.

If you did want to convert that softener, I have some ideas. You would have to increase the backwash rate. You might put a solution tank in place of the brine tank, although I guess you could just use the brine tank as a solution tank. Hmmm. With my H2S+Iron system, I have Centaur Carbon. Then somehow the solution pumped up would have some chlorine in it. Whether you could put a long life chlorine tablet in the bottom of the tank and get a proper dose, I don't know. If you measured an amount of liquid bleach into the solution tank every 3 days, that would work too. My 10 inch tank uses 5 gpm. Your 9 inch tank would use about 4 gpm for the same gpm per area. So the controller would be set up for 13 inch softener tank, which backwashes at 4 gpm. I think the piece to change is called a Backwash Control Plug. My system regenerates every 3 days.

Some would prefer Katalox Light media. That would backwash at about 6 gpm.
View attachment 53422
Usually a 14 inch softener backwashes at 5 gpm, and a 16 inch softener backwashes at 7 gpm. I think KL bed expansion between 25% and 45% is good, and 35% might be nearly ideal. https://www.softenerparts.com/Backwash_Control_Plug_25F_p/ap25f.htm I don't know if you could get enough flow for KL.

It may not need the chlorine, so you could plug that port. However I suspect it would benefit from the chlorine too.

I think your softener uses an Autotrol 155/440. https://www.softenerparts.com/Autotrol_Series_155_made_between_1971_1996_s/36.htm
is one place to find a manual.

I am not a pro.

Thank you, I do not have any smell at all. Well was tested at a certified lab and shows no bacteria or chloroform.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you, Currently the pressure tank is first off of well and pressure switch which is on a 'T" to a 2 x 10 whole house 5 micron filter that I hae to change every month due to ferrous iron? The whole filter is caked with it then the water softener and house.

Changing to a 4.5 x 20 filter, it should last maybe 6 times as long as a 2x10.