Can flow control valves fail?

[Rod McKnight]

I currently have a well/cistern setup where the 1/2 hp 2 wire well pump is restricted to 2.5 gallons per minute by a Dole control valve. The 4' well is approximately 178' deep with a static water level of approximately 14' above the pump with a max 5 GPM when installed. I know it isn't a lot but the level hasn't changed since the thing was drilled two years ago and up until now it hasn't had any issues. I am now experiencing issues where the water flows to the cistern for approximately 2 minutes eventually to leveling to a trickle to completely stopping. I can shut power off to the well pump for 1 minutes or so and repeat this cycle. When I first turn the pump water flows hard into the cistern so hard that I am thinking that maybe that control valve is faulty and it is drawing down too quick now. The only thing that has been done by the driller since this started happening was backwashing the screen but it didn't seem to make any difference. Also we have not experienced any dry spells in quite some time so I cannot think this well is going dry. At least that is what I am hoping...........
So my question to you experts is, can these control valves go bad or are they a solid orifice device that cannot possibly go bad?

Any input is much appreciated.

 

[Valveman]

Even a solid orifice can get washed out. But a Dole valve has a rubber disc on the inlet of the orifice. If the rubber disc gets washed out, the increased differential pressure will make it put out more than it should. You can do a bucket test to see how much the Dole valve is letting pass.

 

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[Rod McKnight]

Thanks for the input valveman. I will try the bucket test to see what I come up with. Just out of curiosity, are these valves usually placed near the pump or somewhere down the line? Also, do you or anyone out there on this forum know what's a good indication of a bad or going bad check valve? Just trying to make myself more knowledgeable before punching another hole in the ground.

Thanks.....

 

[Valveman]

Thanks for the input valveman. I will try the bucket test to see what I come up with. Just out of curiosity, are these valves usually placed near the pump or somewhere down the line? Also, do you or anyone out there on this forum know what's a good indication of a bad or going bad check valve? Just trying to make myself more knowledgeable before punching another hole in the ground.

Thanks.....

The check valve only functions when the pump is off. If you are not losing pressure when no water is being used, the check valve is holding.

 

[Rod McKnight]

Thanks again valveman!

 

[Rod McKnight]

I have one more question in regards to the Dole flow valve. I was reading through some of the forum chatter and there was mention of using a ball valve instead of a Dole type valve so one could balance flow to drawdown rate. In my situation utilizing a cistern, could this ball valve be placed on the end of the PVC pipe feeding the water into my cistern? If so, are there any disadvantages to using a ball valve vs. a Dole type valve? I like the idea where I have control instead of a set 2.5 GPM provided by a Dole valve.

 

[Reach4]

I would think that would work fine, because the pressure and flow rate are going to be fairly constant. If the water pressure in the incoming pipe drops because the water level drops, the flow would reduce -- which I think would be an advantage for the ball valve. That effect would be small, unless the pump was sized low enough.

With a ball valve, somebody else could maybe turn that, where with the Dole valve that worry does not exist. I am not a pro.

 

[Rod McKnight]

It just seems like to me that a ball valve if dialed in correctly would be an excellent idea since you could have more control over the flow rate and adjust accordingly. And correct me if I am wrong, but the only way to change the flow rate with a Dole type valve is to pull the pump and replace with another size? I could see where if one didn't have a well feeding a cistern it might be difficult to incorporate a Dole type valve into the system but you would think that by placing a ball valve on the end of the PVC pipe feeding the cistern you could eliminate the Dole valve that is unless there is a reason you would need to restrict the flow on the pump side of the check valve???
I am not a pro either and that is why I am really starting to appreciate this forum I just found last night.

 

[Valveman]

The Dole valve should also be on the end of the line, not down in the well. And yes you can use a ball valve, and taking the handle off keeps most people from messing with the setting. But a ball valve will wash out over time and start letting more water through. The rubber disc in the Dole valve helps keep it from washing out.

 

[Rod McKnight]

So what I can draw from you and Reach4s feedback is that it is ok to leave the 2.5 GPM Dole valve installed along with a newly installed ball valve at the end of the pipe supplying water to the cistern?? This in return will allow me to dial in the flow I need to minimize drawdown to the point where the pump starts catching air? I also need to mention that I currently have a Pumptec protection device installed to help prevent pump damage. Do you know if the ball valve will have any negative affect on this device to where it won't respond accordingly? The device gives me the capability to set the timout and the underload sensitivity so I assume that by me restricting the water flow more with the use of a ball valve increases the load thus I might need to counter by increasing the the sensitivity so it will truly trip due to a "catching air" condition?

Hope this all makes sense and again thank you guys for your expert inputs.

 

[PumpMd]

So let me get this straight, you have a 2gpm Dole Valve and your well produces 5gpm or your pump system is producing 5gpm with the 2gpm Dole Valve? Having the dole valve in the well doesn't hurt anything besides if you need to change it in the future but I haven't ever seen one fail before, maybe something can plug the hole in the dole valve.

If it was my well, I would've never used a Dole Valve or a ball valve, I would've used a Pumptec or a Cycle Sensor to fill your cistern around the clock 24/7 if you needed it to.

 

[Rod McKnight]

Yes, I currently have a 2gpm Dole valve and the max flow rate when the well was first drilled was a steady 5gpm without catching any error. The 2.5 Dole valve was installed since I have a 1500 gallon cistern currently installed and the higher flow rate was not an issue because of course a cistern doesn't care how fast the water flows into it but a house might. Water where I live seems to be very cyclical meaning that for some reason the static water level in the well drops and rises constantly. Prior to the cistern, I went through 2 pumps in 6 years so a cistern and a Pumptec device was installed to protect everything to include my wallet. I am on my third well in ten years and if this well doesn't pull through this summer, I am looking at a fourth well to be dug 1700' away from the house. If that happens, I will probably be back on this forum to discuss how to use RF to control the pump utilizing the cistern float at that distance. So for now, I am trying to limp this system along in hopes that it recovers down the road.

 

[PumpMd]

Let me ask you this, was your 2 previous pumps installed on low producing Dole valves? Do they even make a 2.5gpm dole valve because I have never seen one? why wasn't a bigger dole valve tested to get the most out of your well since you say it produces 5gpm?

 

[Rod McKnight]

With the exception of the first well prior to the cistern, as far as I know, all of my pumps have been installed with a Dole valve. The 5gpm is on a good day otherwise it is between 2-4. I think the mindset is why do I need to force the well pump at max to get 5gpm when I have that 1500 gallon cistern which I can fill 2.5 gallons at a time. Normally it is just myself and my wife since the kids have left the nest but this issue started when they all came home where I had 6 adults and two grandchildren in the house for a week. At the end of the week I noticed that the cistern was only 1/2 full and the well wasn't pumping. I could hear the well pump running when I placed my ear on the casing but unfortunately nothing was coming out. My current situation after the well company back flushed the screen is I am now able to push 2.5 gallons constantly for approximately 1.5 minutes until trickle then nothing. If I hold the float up to shut the pump down for about 2 minutes I can repeat this cycle. So 3 gallons every two minutes or so will yield me approximately 90 gallons per hour. Of course cycling the pump this many times will significantly decrease the pump life so I think I am going to set our Pumptec protection device to wait approximately 15 minutes between cycles once it catches air which should give me 12 gallons an hour or 288 gallons per day which is plenty for an my wife.
I hate wells I hate hauling water but goes with country living I guess.

 

[PumpMd]

178' deep well, where is the pump set?

 

[Rod McKnight]

That is something I asked (drop the pump) the well company when they came out to back flush the screen and their response was the pump was pretty much sitting at the bottom now. I refuse to believe that this thing is on its downward spiral especially since we haven't experienced any drought situations in years and we are seeing record rainfall totals so far this year thus I am researching all of the possibilities. Do you or anyone out there know what a would be a good indication of partial collapse of the well? Why would overtasking the well for one week lead to lower yields now? Could it be that I am some sort of static pool of water that is now drained but is slowly recovering? It has been over two weeks since our extra company left the house but it is still not producing like it did before the extra company.

 

[Reach4]

Do you or anyone out there know what a would be a good indication of partial collapse of the well?

Do you have casing all of the way down? If so, that would make collapse unlikely.

Try searching for information on well rehabilitation. I don't know if such efforts would pay off.

 

[PumpMd]

I just find it hard to believe that you are almost set on bottom with only 14' of water on a 178' well. 15mins is fine between cycles on your pumptec.

 

[Rod McKnight]

Do you have casing all of the way down? If so, that would make collapse unlikely.

Try searching for information on well rehabilitation. I don't know if such efforts would pay off.

I just looked at the itemized bill for my current well and it does have a casing all the way down. I was doing some research and came across this Well Manager device that looks promising and expensive. Not sure if this is just a gimmick or just an expensive Pumptec device but it is worth a shot so I think I am going to do a little more research on it and I will start with this forum.

 

[Rod McKnight]

I just find it hard to believe that you are almost set on bottom with only 14' of water on a 178' well. 15mins is fine between cycles on your pumptec.

The driller is supposed to meet with me this weekend to discuss and I will get to the bottom of this and find out some actual stats for this well. Unfortunately when it was drilled two yeas ago, all I received was an itemized bill of materials and no specifics on the well itself. Again thanks for the replies.