Brittle neutral wire broke off at conduit

[bobahbla]

Regular DIYer stumped for the first time. I was replacing a ceiling fan when one of the neutral cloth-covered wires broke off at the conduit (see photo).

I’m unsure how repair and proceed. Any advice would be greatly appreciated and thanks in advance!

 

[Stuff]

What was set up before? Those clamp connectors are supposed to be on the outside of the box.

Do you have access to above in the attic? That would be best to redo everything and put in a properly supported fan box.

Otherwise sometimes you can pull the cable (most likely BX/AC) out a couple of inches. Then cut the armor back exposing new wire.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bobahbla]

What was set up before? Those clamp connectors are supposed to be on the outside of the box.

Do you have access to above in the attic? That would be best to redo everything and put in a properly supported fan box.

Otherwise sometimes you can pull the cable (most likely BX/AC) out a couple of inches. Then cut the armor back exposing new wire.

 

[bobahbla]

Sorry there was an old box there that I replaced to accommodate the new fan mount. The connectors will definitely be in place with the new fan box.

I considered pulling the cable out more but hesitate because of the fragility of the cloth and potentially limited cable length. I’ll take another look. I really appreciate the input!

 

[Stuff]

Lots of times the wire and cloth insulation on those cables looks new once you peel back the armor. Using a new deep recessed box will help get some length back. The hardest part will most likely be cutting the armor. You may need to use a hacksaw to reach but the easy way is to use a "BX cutter"

 

[Jadnashua]

If the fan attachment wasn't rock solid, the vibration over years may have fatigued the wire. That one that broke may not be the only one that was compromised.

 

[FullySprinklered]

If the insulation is cooked, it usually doesn't go too far back before you find intact insulation, in my experience. If you can find some slack in the wire and are able to pull out enough to work with, you may be able to make a safe connection.
Most of the bad boxes I've run into, the insulation was cooked off the wires by using high wattage bulbs over a good many years.
On some occasions I've been able to pull enough good wire into the box, and paint the bare areas of the wire with a liquid insulating product. Several coats. Not the most desirable scenario, but it works if you take a little time with it to make sure everything's good. Better to go swimming in the attic and resection the wires in junction boxes.

 

[Mr. Mint]

Tough problem! Perhaps you can go into the attic and with luck, find a junction box from which you can run a new cable.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Mr. Mint. That avatar looks like my ex-mother in law. Scared the piss out of me. You should be more careful in the future.

 

[bobahbla]

Thanks everyone. Just getting back into the this after the holidays. It seems that I have the slack but I’m not sure if it’s bx that I’m dealing with. I’ve attached an image of the armor and it seems stronger than bx. Any idea if the cutter can handle this? Thanks again.

 

[Stuff]

Real BX/AC is steel so is a bear to cut. A BX cutter will do it but takes some elbow grease. Otherwise hack saw. Possibly Dremel tool.

It does look like you pulled an inch or so of wire out of it so maybe you don't have to cut the armor. It is cheating but you could use something like this to extend the wire. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-S...sh-In-Butt-Splices-10-Pack-30-1342S/202894306

 

[bobahbla]

More perfect advice. Thanks again but just a few more questions (I hope).

One, I managed to to cut the armor and extend the wire (as shown in the photo). Wires C & D have weakened cloth but are reinforced with the electrical tape. Are they OK or should attempt the same extension and stripping?

Two, my labels came undone but I remember the connection, albeit a little odd to me. Wire B is the only hot wire while A, C, & D are neutral. B was connected to C and A was connected to D. Shouldn't all the neutrals be together? I hope this makes sense and would appreciate an explanation as to how a hot and neutral wire would be together correctly.

As always, thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Stuff]

I like using heat shrink tubing over the old wires but tape should be good enough.

How do you know that A,C,and D are all neutrals? Colors don't always tell the tale. If you turn on the wall switch does one of the wires become hot? If not you need an ohmmeter to see which wires it connects.

 

[FullySprinklered]

There will be a white wire tied into the black bundle that sends power down to the switch. Comes back up on the black and connects to the black on the light fixture. White on the fixture is tied into the white bundle.

 

[bobahbla]

There isn’t a switch but a non contact voltage meter detects the single hot wire when the breakers are on. Would a multimeter detect something from C & D that the pen can’t? Also based on what fullysprinklered says, are C & D interchangeable?

 

[Stuff]

No switch? Maybe it got covered over? I think the guess was that C & D went to the switch.

Normally there is power in (black and white) and a connection to the wall switch (black and taped white). A second set of wires would be power out (black and white) to feed additional receptacles.

 

[bobahbla]

Makes sense now and I think that's a good guess that it was covered (unfortunately).

So basically I could cap off C & D and use A & B for the fan, correct?

 

[Jadnashua]

They could have used that box as a junction for other things...when the breaker is off, what else does not work? If you don't connect those leads, something else may no longer work once you turn the breaker back on. You won't know for sure unless you try, but if it's not broken, it may be best to not try to fix it!

 

[bobahbla]

Funny you should say that because a nearby wall outlet stopped working. Not the end of the world but may as well put it back as it was.

Just out of curiosity, are the C & D wires, testing as neutral, interchangeable with the B wire?

 

[Stuff]

Didn't ask earlier: Were the wires with caps already that way or did you do something different with them? If capped maybe they went to the missing switch. And then CD may go to the wall outlet.