BobbytheBus
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Brine recovery error 106 on clack softener
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Bannerman
Well-Known Member
How many buttons is your Clack valve equipped with?
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BobbytheBus
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There are 5 buttons. Clock, Regen, next and then an up and down arrow.
BobbytheBus
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Bannerman
Well-Known Member
I do not know what you are referring to when stating 'Brine Recovery'. Perhaps this Clack valve is proprietary to whatever company that supplied the system.
Normally, after the media is backwashed to eliminate debris and to reclassify the resin and expand the spaces between the resin granules, the valve during Brine Draw, will draw in the brine from the brine tank. This will transfer the brine from the brine tank to the media tank to cause the brine to slowly flow between the resin granules.
While flowing through the resin, sodium ions will be transferred from the brine to the resin, causing calcium and magnesium ions to be released from the resin to the weakening brine solution. Once all of the brine has been transferred from the brine tank, slow rinse will continue to push the weakening brine through the resin, until the chloride, calcium, magnesium and excess sodium is rinsed away to drain. As such, there is no opportunity for Brine Recovery.
In reviewing the standard Clack 5-button manual, I do not see any mention for error code 106, only error codes 1001 - 1004. The manual states if other error codes are indicated, to contact the factory.
Normally, after the media is backwashed to eliminate debris and to reclassify the resin and expand the spaces between the resin granules, the valve during Brine Draw, will draw in the brine from the brine tank. This will transfer the brine from the brine tank to the media tank to cause the brine to slowly flow between the resin granules.
While flowing through the resin, sodium ions will be transferred from the brine to the resin, causing calcium and magnesium ions to be released from the resin to the weakening brine solution. Once all of the brine has been transferred from the brine tank, slow rinse will continue to push the weakening brine through the resin, until the chloride, calcium, magnesium and excess sodium is rinsed away to drain. As such, there is no opportunity for Brine Recovery.
In reviewing the standard Clack 5-button manual, I do not see any mention for error code 106, only error codes 1001 - 1004. The manual states if other error codes are indicated, to contact the factory.
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BobbytheBus
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Bannerman
Well-Known Member
For there to be 'unused brine', implies preparing a greater amount of brine than will be needed to regenerate the capacity that was consumed since the previous regen cycle.
In viewing the Master water website, without knowing the specific model you are referring to (I'm not looking at every model), I suspect what they call 'Brine Recovery' refers to variable brining which is variable in relation to the capacity to be regenerated.
With single tank softener, a certain amount of capacity will need to be allocated as 'Reserve'. Not all reserve capacity will be utilized every time before regeneration is performed so whatever amount of reserve that is remaining will be regerated again, thereby wasting some brine and the salt needed to create it. One day softening capacity is the usual reserve needed so when hardness or water consumption is high, any unused reserve can be significant. Attempts at variable Brining/variable Reserve have been done previously, with less than reliable results due to complexity.
For most residential applications with moderate hardness and water usage, the usual recommendation is to sufficiently size the system while using an efficient salt setting (8 lbs per ft3 will provide the best balance of efficiency, Capacity and water quality) so regeneration will not be needed more than 1X per week and as few as 1X per month while providing the household soft water requirements.
In viewing the Master water website, without knowing the specific model you are referring to (I'm not looking at every model), I suspect what they call 'Brine Recovery' refers to variable brining which is variable in relation to the capacity to be regenerated.
With single tank softener, a certain amount of capacity will need to be allocated as 'Reserve'. Not all reserve capacity will be utilized every time before regeneration is performed so whatever amount of reserve that is remaining will be regerated again, thereby wasting some brine and the salt needed to create it. One day softening capacity is the usual reserve needed so when hardness or water consumption is high, any unused reserve can be significant. Attempts at variable Brining/variable Reserve have been done previously, with less than reliable results due to complexity.
For most residential applications with moderate hardness and water usage, the usual recommendation is to sufficiently size the system while using an efficient salt setting (8 lbs per ft3 will provide the best balance of efficiency, Capacity and water quality) so regeneration will not be needed more than 1X per week and as few as 1X per month while providing the household soft water requirements.
BobbytheBus
Member
Darn. I'm kind of bummed that I got this BRV now. At this point it's just something connected to my control valve that is sending water through another valve to drain and I'm thinking I don't even bother to set it up to recover the brine if you are that skeptical of it even working. The one I got was the MP MCA 30t with brine recovery.
They set the salt settings at the factory so I'll go in there and see if it's 8lbs per ft3. Thank you.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
Brine recovery is basically marketing garbage. it can be effectively used in large regen plants but for a residential application, it would make about as much sense as putting a wind turbine on your electric car to generate electricity to power the batteries while you drive... I design brine recovery systems, the math simply does not play out for most applications. The only time we do it is when an engineer read online about how amazing it is and specifies it in the equipment specs. It really only works if you first waste a ton of salt so that you have some left to recover... I do training seminars on the topic at trade shows and I may do this topic at the upcoming PWQA trade show.
Here is the error code list from my proprietary Clack valve.
Here is the error code list from my proprietary Clack valve.
BobbytheBus
Member
Well that sucks that I wasted money on this but I appreciate you guys telling me the truth. Since it's connected should I just leave it on and not use the brine recovery settings? I connected the drain line to it and everything seems fine. Just wondering if I should take this off or not. I always think if it's not broken to leave it. It's just another valve the water is running through at this point.
ditttohead
Water systems designer, R&D
Bannerman, you may be right, if he is referring to variable brining, this is a good function and is primarily used when a system can not be sized properly. Undersized units can benefit from this technology. My proprietary Clack valve has this feature and it is used primarily when a twin alternating system is unfeasible. The main consideration is the unit must be sized to last at least a whole day between regenerations and 24 hour soft water is not required.
BobbytheBus
Member
It takes me a few times reading the responses to figure out what is being said. I see now he was saying it would had been better to have the system properly sized.
I did get the brine recovery fixed. I had the wrong instructions.
The corrugated flex line I'm using has a small drip. I got a cheap one and didn't research them. I saw one of your posts you recommend the falcon max flo with clack connector. You posted that a while ago. Do you still like them?
BobbytheBus
Member
Just an update on the last response. I ordered the falcon with the quick clack connect and it didn't fit. I also got the falcon fip to fip so I'm just using that. So far it's a much better seal then what I had before. No drip.
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