Brass/Lead Flange Problem

[dougonbay]

Installing a new toilet at our cabin and am stuck on installation.

The problem is that the toilet flange is not level - it's about an inch off - but the toilet itself always seemed level to us . The old wax ring had a 'long' neck and I guess that compensated for the offset. I can't get underneath to straighten it because the cabin is on a hill and the toilet is at the high end with maybe a foot clearance underneath. I really don't want to dig that out so I'd like to find a solution from the top if possible.

The diameter of the drain is 3 1/2 inches and 3 inches to the lip.

I imagine the right way is to get that flange disconnected from the floor then level it then install wax ring and toilet. In the picture it looks like screws are holding the brass to the floor but they are not. It may not be possible to move it because the flange and drainpipe may be buried in dirt. If that's the case I was thinking of adding a metal flange overlay with a spacer underneath to level it. Then because the new wax rings have a very small neck I was thinking about gluing a PVC collar onto the wax ring to make sure it extends into the drain. I'm hoping there is a better solution and really appreciate any advice.



Thanks,
Doug

 

[dougonbay]

As an afterthought, I'm not adverse to cutting that plywood floor and then repairing it if it would help.....Doug

 

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[Jadnashua]

Is that a bend (kink) in the lead? What is (if anything) going on the floor before you try to install the toilet? WIll that raise the floor any? The piece of ply that the block is sitting on, is that there just for showing the level? That whole thing, the ring and lead is fairly tall, and some toilets won't sit on the floor since it is too high, not enough clearance in their horn area. The whole toilet would need to sit on a platform to raise it so there'd be enough room. Is the whole floor out of level? The toilet will work tilted, for the most part, as long as it can sit flat. Level is nicer, though.

Generally, the wax rings with a horn can create problems, especially in your case where the pipe is already constricted with that kink...the horn may get pressed closed. If the toilet is set so that it doesn't rock and you haven't squished all of the wax out because the flange is too high, wax alone should be fine for the seal.

Lead is maleable, so you might be able to form that better than it is. The stuff gets brittle, and could crack, so someone with some experience would be better or you might end up with a mess.

 

[dougonbay]

Thanks for the reply Jim. I'm not sure what that kink is, it just sticks out, strange. The ply the block is sitting on is part of an overlay floor put down a long time ago. The front and rear of the toilet had pieces of ply to level it with the rest. Didn't check level on the whole floor but it's probably not true. We just have in/out carpet over the ply - it's a cabin.

The plan was a simple upgrade of a 30+ year toilet before we close camp at the end of October. But it doesn't appear that simple any longer so I'm thinking about closing it up early and in the spring repair/replace the ply floor, lay down some nice hardwood or ceramic, and swap the brass/lead flange to PVC - which I would get a pro to do.

It would be great to have short term fix though because we love autumn in the Adirondacks!

Doug

 

[Jadnashua]

A toilet is designed so it should fit on a flange that is installed on top of the finished floor. A brass ring/lead riser might be on the high side of acceptable, but should still fit. It doesn't have to be perfectly level, but it helps. From the ply the toilet would sit on, how far does the flange and lead stick up? High side/low side? It might not be a problem. Many toilets have close to an inch of clearance between the floor and the top of the horn where the wax seals. As long as the toilet can sit flat on the floor and you haven't squeezed out all of the wax, it should work. That horn area is often not square, but domed, so depending on the shape of the flange, you could still have problems.