Brand new submersible well pump barely pumping when running

[Matt bryniarski]

I purchase a 1hp 3wire 10gpm pump from tractor supply to replace the old pump that siezed up. The old wine was 3/4hp. When I installed the new one, water barely pumped to the surface, less than a weak garden hose. The well is 80feet deep, the pump is at 71feet down and the water table is at 10 feet. I called there tec support and they said the 1hp pump was to large and should have purchased the 1/2hp or 3/4hp model, but clearly printed on the box of my pump has a chart that says it will pump 14gpm at 80ft. When I said that to the tech, they said that a dole restrictor vale or gate valve might help. Is that true?

 

[Valveman]

A Dole valve will DECREASE the flow, not increase it. Need more info. 2 wire pump or 3 wire with control box? Are you sure it is a 10 GPM pump, not a 40 GPM? 115V or 230V motor and are you feeding it the correct voltage? Giving a 230V motor only 115V will cause what you say. Do you have a clip around amp meter? That is the best way see what the pump/motor is doing.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Matt bryniarski]

A Dole valve will DECREASE the flow, not increase it. Need more info. 2 wire pump or 3 wire with control box? Are you sure it is a 10 GPM pump, not a 40 GPM? 115V or 230V motor and are you feeding it the correct voltage? Giving a 230V motor only 115V will cause what you say. Do you have a clip around amp meter? That is the best way see what the pump/motor is doing.

It is a 1hp 10gpm 230volt 3 wire with control box 4inch submersible well pump. I used an electric meter and it read 117 volts on both wires supplying the control box. I pulled the pump out of the well after that to try to troubleshoot the problem. I wanted to make sure there wasn’t any clogs or holes in the pipe and the check valves were installed correctly. I bench tested the pump in 55 gallon barrel and it worked, it emptyed the barrel in just a few minutes. Since the water table is only 10 feet down because of all our recent rains, I attached the first 20 foot 1 1/4 pipe and turned on the pump. I pump barely worked. The deeper the pump, the less it worked. When the pump was at 71feet in the 80 foot well it was pumping less than a weak garden hose, 1 to 2 gpm in my estimation.

 

[Valveman]

Then what pump is it?

 

[Matt bryniarski]

Then what pump is it?

It’s a 1 hp 10gpm 230volt 3 wire 4inch submersible deep well pump with control box purchased from tractor supply. The brand says county line. I think It’s made by Pentier for tractor supply.

 

[Reach4]

How much pressure does the pump produce on the pressure gauge when you do not use water?

Are you sure you connected the wires correctly between the control box and the pump?

 

[Matt bryniarski]

How much pressure does the pump produce on the pressure gauge when you do not use water?

Are you sure you connected the wires correctly between the control box and the pump?

The pump doesn’t make enough pressure to fill the pressure tank or resister anything on the pressure gauge. I also triple checked the wiring. Black to black, red to red, yellow to yellow, green to green. From pump to control box. Electric meter reads 117 volts on both wires supplying the electricity to the control box. It’s grounded properly. I think it’s a bad pump, but the rep from the manufacturer says otherwise. Saying I need a dole or gate valve installed. How would that help?

 

[Reach4]

lectric meter reads 117 volts on both wires supplying the electricity to the control box.

Measure between the wires rather than from each wire to a ground. Also, measure the current with a clamp-around ammeter. Expect zero on green, roughly 8 amps on yellow, and it will be interesting what you get on black and red.

. I think it’s a bad pump, but the rep from the manufacturer says otherwise. Saying I need a dole or gate valve installed. How would that help?

Your problem is not lack of a Dole valve. Guaranteed. The Dole valve would limit your pump to only put out maybe 12 gpm. That is not going have an effect on these symptoms. This is not to say that a 12 gpm Dole valve would not be good later.

So most likely is a hole in the pipe, bad leak at the pitless adapter, or a bad pump.

 

[Valveman]

117V on each leg isn't the way to test it. You need to make sure you have 230V between the two hot legs.

 

[Matt bryniarski]

117V on each leg isn't the way to test it. You need to make sure you have 230V between the two hot legs.

What do you mean?

 

[Valveman]

You can have 117V on both legs through feedback, and still not have 240V across the two lines as needed,

 

[Midriller]

Did you try pumping the well over the top of the casing without hooking it back into the system. What you are describing sound like an un derground water line has ruptured. This can be checked by checking the amp load of your motor. If amps are low, Its not pumping sufficient flow, but if they are normal (or a touch high, as a 1 h.p. pump will over pump at that shallow of a setting) it is moving water but that water is not reaching your pressure tank. A pumping elbow can easily be made with a few fittings, pressure gauge, and valve so you can put back pressure on pump and drop pipe only. This will also tell you if the well has sufficient water to start with.

Daniel Siebenaler
A+ Well Services
Galesburg Mi 49053

 

[Matt bryniarski]

Did you try pumping the well over the top of the casing without hooking it back into the system. What you are describing sound like an un derground water line has ruptured. This can be checked by checking the amp load of your motor. If amps are low, Its not pumping sufficient flow, but if they are normal (or a touch high, as a 1 h.p. pump will over pump at that shallow of a setting) it is moving water but that water is not reaching your pressure tank. A pumping elbow can easily be made with a few fittings, pressure gauge, and valve so you can put back pressure on pump and drop pipe only. This will also tell you if the well has sufficient water to start with.

Daniel Siebenaler
A+ Well Services
Galesburg Mi 49053

The well has a gate valve that is closed. No water is entering the pipes that supply the houses. The water that is pumped up can only go to the pressure tank.
The well is 80 feet deep and the water table is at 10 feet. There is 70 feet of water. I purchased a clamp amp meter. Do you know what each wire should read? Do I have to install the well pump again? I was thinking about using a trash can filled with water. I can use two 90 degree elbows, on the pipe to pump the water back into the trash can. What voltage should each wire read?

 

[WorthFlorida]

This assumes the pump is wire wired from the circuit breaker with the conventional color scheme.
The black and red wires are your hot leads. You’re reading 117v from the black to the yellow neutral and from the red to the yellow. Place the meter leads across the black and red and it should be 230 volts.

With your clamp meter turn on the pump immersed in the 55 gallon drum of water and measure the current on the black and then the red wire. Also check the current on the yellow wire. Then place the pump in the well and do the same measurements. Record the numbers and update this post.

When you tested it with water in the drum, where the same wires used from the well? With the drum test, can the pipe that goes down the well, can it be connected to the pump during the drum test?

 

[Valveman]

1HP pulls 9 amps. 3/4HP pulls 7 amps. You can check on the incoming L1 and L2. Instead of two 90's, use one tee and one 90. In the tee put a pressure gauge. After the tee and elbow install a ball valve. This way you can simulate the same conditions as in the well. 100 PSI would be the same as getting 50 PSI from a depth of 115'. Also see how much pressure the pump can build when you close the ball valve. Just don't leave it completely closed for more than a minute or so to keep the pump from getting hot.

 

[Matt bryniarski]

Did you try pumping the well over the top of the casing without hooking it back into the system. What you are describing sound like an un derground water line has ruptured. This can be checked by checking the amp load of your motor. If amps are low, Its not pumping sufficient flow, but if they are normal (or a touch high, as a 1 h.p. pump will over pump at that shallow of a setting) it is moving water but that water is not reaching your pressure tank. A pumping elbow can easily be made with a few fittings, pressure gauge, and valve so you can put back pressure on pump and drop pipe only. This will also tell you if the well has sufficient water to start with.

Daniel Siebenaler
A+ Well Services
Galesburg Mi 49053

1HP pulls 9 amps. 3/4HP pulls 7 amps. You can check on the incoming L1 and L2. Instead of two 90's, use one tee and one 90. In the tee put a pressure gauge. After the tee and elbow install a ball valve. This way you can simulate the same conditions as in the well. 100 PSI would be the same as getting 50 PSI from a depth of 115'. Also see how much pressure the pump can build when you close the ball valve. Just don't leave it completely closed for more than a minute or so to keep the pump from getting hot.

I made the test with the t that you recommended with a t fitting, valve and a pressure gauge, in a trash can filled with water. I only had 100psi pressure gauge. When I closed the valve, the gauge instantly went way passed 100 psi. I used the valve to make the pressure gauge say 100psi and made the amp measurements. Since my well is 80 feet deep 100psi above ground should be around 60psi at 80 feet deep, I think. The yellow wire read 12.12 amps, Black read 11.90amps, red read 0.37, and the green read zero. Written on the pump it says 8.7amps, max amps 10.3amps. Why doesn’t the pump work when it’s down the well?

 

[Valveman]

Let it run a few minutes. At 11-12 amps the overload in an 8.7 amp motor should trip. Should be less than 8.7 amps.

 

[Matt bryniarski]

Let it run a few minutes. At 11-12 amps the overload in an 8.7 amp motor should trip. Should be less than 8.7 amps.

It’s been running for 20 minutes at 100 psi, nothing is tripping. It still reads 11.4 amps. The electric clamp meter is brand new, got in th mail today.

 

[Midriller]

Is this 11.4 reading from the pump in the well or trash can? How does this compare to its reading in the other scenario? Higher? Lower? Same? Have you tried pumping from the well over top of the well head with the test fitting? When you were pumping in the trash can you should have noticed your amps decrease as you increase pressure. Amps are relative to working load. GPM ~ AMPS . On a good quality submersible your AMPs should be close to even on both legs 9.0 Amps 'ish on a 1 HP motor with your depth setting. It will run a little high as you 10 GPM rated pump should make around 14 GPM. I still believe either your well is dry (plugged screen if screened well) , you have a break between well and house, plugged drop pipe. or stuck check valve. If it is a plugged line or stuck check valve your amps should be LOW, If it is a broken service line between the house and well your amps should be HIGH If the well is drawing down the amps should start normal then drop significantly when water drops below the pump setting.

 

[Midriller]

The Red or Start winding should only show a spike of amps on start up to get the motor turning past the first sec or so it may only show .5 amp or less as it is charging the capacitor