I have a Fleck 5810 valve plumbed upstream from (before) a garage booster pump with a flow control valve. Whenever my 5810 regenerates the booster pump turns on. The booster pump should only turn on when there is water flowing through the pump flow control switch to the garage plumped several meters downstream from the 5810. I am guessing the 5810 regeneration creates some change in downstream plumping pressure that trips the pump flow control switch. Does this seem reasonable? Would a check valve before the flow control switch be a possible solution or would you instead consider finding a less sensitive flow control switch? Thank you for any advice. David
Booster pump mystery
- Thread starter jjamison
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The flow control switch looks like this with English writing. Why a backwashing filter upstream should impact a flow control valve is confusing to me.
Any negative pressure would seem to just close the valve more tightly and any positive pressure I wouldn't imagine being able to expand the plumbing enough to allow the flow valve to move. What am I missing?
Any negative pressure would seem to just close the valve more tightly and any positive pressure I wouldn't imagine being able to expand the plumbing enough to allow the flow valve to move. What am I missing?
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Sounds like you may have one of those booster pumps that comes on with flow OR low pressure.
Thanks for the reply Cary. It's a spring loaded mechanism. When installed I saw the spring, but did not disassemble. Maybe it is low pressure if that can affect the mechanism. I don't believe the distributor is going to be helpful
"Hi,
I'm sorry,we do not understand what you mean,what's wrong with it now, and our pump is controlled by a flow switch, not a pressure switch. You must have a water flow,the pump can start,the minimum start-up flow is 2LPM."
The only time the pump turns on, other than when a spigot is opened downstream, is when an upstream water filter regenerates. Hmmm
"Hi,
I'm sorry,we do not understand what you mean,what's wrong with it now, and our pump is controlled by a flow switch, not a pressure switch. You must have a water flow,the pump can start,the minimum start-up flow is 2LPM."
The only time the pump turns on, other than when a spigot is opened downstream, is when an upstream water filter regenerates. Hmmm
He understood that you were thinking it is a flow-only switch. He was offering the possibility that the switch responded to either flow or low pressure.
Since the backwashing filter/softener only runs at a specific time, you could power your booster pump via a timer that stopped the power to the garage pump during the potential regenerations.
A check valve might be enough alone, but if you also had a small pressure tank downstream of the check valve, that could overcome any tiny backflow leak to maintain pressure.
He responded the switch was a flow switch with a minimum of 2lpm, implying pressure would not make a difference by saying it is not a pressure switch. The problem is a language barrier and/or inexpert responder. I wrote an explanation of the problem to the distributor making it clear I'm wondering why this pump trips when there is *no* flow.
Does anyone have experience with these inexpensive spring flow switches?
Is installation orientation critical? the manual says no
Can pressure fluctuations trip this "flow switch"? I guess so since this is happening
Really I am just obsessing over this when I should try some solutions and see what works. I was just hoping for a flow switch guru to respond "I have encountered these problems with flow switches and upstream filters regenerating many times and this is what is happening and this is how to fix it" he he.
Your ideas Reach4 are good ones! I like the idea of a pressure tank. I wonder if a water hammer arrestor might serve a similar function in absorbing minor pressure fluctuations or if they are designed to really only respond to significant pressure changes.
Also your idea of using a timer to turn the booster pump off during regeneration periods is remarkably creative. I don't think that would have ever occurred to me!
I suppose I'll try the check valve first, then maybe water hammer arrester, maybe small pressure tank if I can't just let it go, or more likely try the timer solution. Thanks a bunch!
Does anyone have experience with these inexpensive spring flow switches?
Is installation orientation critical? the manual says no
Can pressure fluctuations trip this "flow switch"? I guess so since this is happening
Really I am just obsessing over this when I should try some solutions and see what works. I was just hoping for a flow switch guru to respond "I have encountered these problems with flow switches and upstream filters regenerating many times and this is what is happening and this is how to fix it" he he.
Your ideas Reach4 are good ones! I like the idea of a pressure tank. I wonder if a water hammer arrestor might serve a similar function in absorbing minor pressure fluctuations or if they are designed to really only respond to significant pressure changes.
Also your idea of using a timer to turn the booster pump off during regeneration periods is remarkably creative. I don't think that would have ever occurred to me!
I suppose I'll try the check valve first, then maybe water hammer arrester, maybe small pressure tank if I can't just let it go, or more likely try the timer solution. Thanks a bunch!
All this and we still have no idea what kind of pump or control this is??
A brand and model number would be nice if you can't post a picture. I am guessing it is some kind of Masscontrol or Burcam type device, which BTW has a low pressure start if the flow switch fails to get it going. May not be a "guru", but if I know which one it is I would have a better idea? One thing I know for sure is that very few of the people that sell them know how they work.
A brand and model number would be nice if you can't post a picture. I am guessing it is some kind of Masscontrol or Burcam type device, which BTW has a low pressure start if the flow switch fails to get it going. May not be a "guru", but if I know which one it is I would have a better idea? One thing I know for sure is that very few of the people that sell them know how they work.
Pump is
W15GR,110V
BOKYWOX although I believe all generic components
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071F8KHN5/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
controller is HT-120 (google "HT-120 flow control switch)
W15GR,110V
BOKYWOX although I believe all generic components
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071F8KHN5/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
controller is HT-120 (google "HT-120 flow control switch)
The descriptions of the switch on ebay suggest a low water pressure start although I'm not sure as it reads as a translation for sure. If the situation is low pressure generated by backwashing then I could hope a check valve would help? I should give it a try as a check valve isn't going to hurt.
That does look like just a flow switch. But it is probably a rotary type switch that will work even if water is flowing backwards. So I think a check valve would solve your problem.
There are much better booster pump systems. That switch can only handle 1.5 amps, so the pump can't be big enough to actually boost the pressure by much.
There are much better booster pump systems. That switch can only handle 1.5 amps, so the pump can't be big enough to actually boost the pressure by much.
LLigetfa
DIYer, not in the trades
Depends what all is downstream of the checkvalve as it creates a closed system so if there is a water heater you may need an expansion tank.
Thanks Valveman/Cary and LLigetfa!
When I looked in the switch on installation I saw a spring so I assumed it was a door type, but I wouldn't know.
Yeah, it doesn't boost much. My wife purchased a shower head for the garage apartment that has two heads, well, one head and one handheld unit and I wanted them both to have reasonable flow. Not a big deal. The wife said she thought they were supposed to just work one at a time anyway. The booster seems to increase pressure about 20% or so. I really just wanted to do it because I could, or try.
Ok, there is a water heater downstream. The garage has two sinks, toilet, and a double headed shower, and yes a water heater.
Tell me about how a checkvalve might not be a good idea due to the water heater.
thanks again
When I looked in the switch on installation I saw a spring so I assumed it was a door type, but I wouldn't know.
Yeah, it doesn't boost much. My wife purchased a shower head for the garage apartment that has two heads, well, one head and one handheld unit and I wanted them both to have reasonable flow. Not a big deal. The wife said she thought they were supposed to just work one at a time anyway. The booster seems to increase pressure about 20% or so. I really just wanted to do it because I could, or try.
Ok, there is a water heater downstream. The garage has two sinks, toilet, and a double headed shower, and yes a water heater.
Tell me about how a checkvalve might not be a good idea due to the water heater.
thanks again
Here is what a description I found reads "After turning on the tap the flow wil push the plate to rotate.at a given positon the induction componet will be activated and the switch is on.the pump starts.the spring will force the plate to rotate back after turning off the tap.the induction component will be shut off and the pump stops."
Found a thread on why expansion tank is necessary with water heater:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30536755-Plumbing-Expansion-Tank-Necessary-with-Check-Valve
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30536755-Plumbing-Expansion-Tank-Necessary-with-Check-Valve
Yes, the well pressure tank served as a giant thermal expansion tank. Putting in the check valve would isolate the garage water heater from the big tank.
