Booster pump having trouble boosting sometimes

[manich]

I have a 23 year old Teel 1/3hp booster jet pump in my basement about 65' above a shared 325' deep well with 2 other households. The other households are one, 25' below well house, and the other is about 35' below me. I am the only one needing the booster and on the same line as my 35' lower neighbor. What I have found lately is my pump comes on at 40psi and most of the time will pump my system back up to 60. Lately I have found it running at 30psi and not increasing the pressure. I turn it off after a while to protect its old "bones".

My hypothesis is that my booster pump can turn on and move water up the hill those 65 feet if the pressure at the well house is in the upper range of its 60/40 setting. If it is, say between 45-40, it is not getting enough help to get the water up the hill. Could boosting the well switch to 65-45 alleviate this situation, or should I just rebuild my old pump, or buy a new booster pump to get back to more boosting power? Thanks

 

[Valveman]

My guess is you have a small leak in the suction line or the venture nozzle is getting clogged with debris. It could also be the level of water in the well has decreased because if you turn it off for a while the well recovers and the pump works the next time. That is a very small pump for what you are doing. Is there anyway to replace it with a submersible pump?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Boosting the well switch by 5 PSI could help, but I suspect it will not. Why do you need a booster when the unit 65 feet above does not? If there were no pressure regulator, your incoming pressure should be 15 PSI higher than theirs unless there is a pressure regulator between the well pump line and the line that you share with your lower neighbor. If there is a single well pump, without a regulator, there would be a

One answer would be to connect to the line that the upper neighbors connect to. That would bypass the regulator that I hypothesize. Then no booster needed.

I have not done any thing with jet pumps, but I suspect, based on reading, that you would want to try the easy thing first: run a wire through the jet to get rid of debris that is partially clogging the jet/venturi. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/shallow-well-spring-pump-problem.60328/ https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-am-i-doing-wrong.53856/

That may not fix it, but if it doesn't you continue with the buy/rebuild decision. But I think hooking to the water that does not go through a PRV (pressure regulating valve) would be the best solution. Quieter too.

 

[manich]

My guess is you have a small leak in the suction line or the venture nozzle is getting clogged with debris. It could also be the level of water in the well has decreased because if you turn it off for a while the well recovers and the pump works the next time. That is a very small pump for what you are doing. Is there anyway to replace it with a submersible pump?

There is a submersible pump in the well itself that seems to be enough for my neighbor 35' below me. I noticed this issue is worse when they are out of town and not using water to get the pressure drop to get the submersible to turn on. My pump has either lost the power to drop the pressure at the well head, which is why I am thinking of raising that pressure switch cut-on setting. Or as you say, I might have a leak in the line coming up the hill to my house and hurting the suction I need.

 

[manich]

Boosting the well switch by 5 PSI could help, but I suspect it will not. Why do you need a booster when the unit 65 feet above does not? QUOTE]

I edited my post above to make it clearer. My neighbor is 35' below me. I am the highest house on the 3 house system.

 

[Reach4]

The other households are one, 25' below well house, and the other is about 35' above. I am the only one needing the booster and on the same line as my 35' lower neighbor.

D0 I understand you to say that the neighbor above you does not have a booster pump? Or are you saying that only the neighbor below you does not need a booster pump?

 

[manich]

D0 I understand you to say that the neighbor above you does not have a booster pump? Or are you saying that only the neighbor below you does not need a booster pump?

I am the only one, at 65' above well head, with a booster pump. Other neighbor 35' above well head does not need one, and has fine pressure.

 

[Reach4]

Sorry. I had mis-read your original post-- I was thinking you were in the middle. Makes sense now. What is the water pressure at the middle-height house?

An alternative to you having a booster would be to crank up the well pressure. Here is a table which I may or may not have gotten the altitudes WRT the well house pressure switch correctly. If those are wrong, the rest of it is wrong. If it is correct, and you chose 60/80 at the well house the lower house would need a PRV probably. Officially you should have a PRV if the incoming pressure is above 80 PSI. See the green columns for the expected pressures. The orange column would be close, and would give a tollerable 26/47 PSI at your house, and be 81 max at the bottom. Close enough.

A PRV is going to be cheaper than a new booster pump. This is a case where I think a "bypass" type PRV would shine. That would mean that the bottom house would not have to have a thermal expansion tank IMHO. I think I would go with the 60/80 green column or maybe 70/90 using a PRV for the bottom for sure. I would set the PRV to about 55 PSI.

When you change the pressure switch, you need to also change the precharge on the pressure tank.

 

[manich]

Thanks for that table. Looks like a 50/70 setting would be a good starting point and not requiring a PRV..

 

[manich]

My guess is you have a small leak in the suction line or the venture nozzle is getting clogged with debris. It could also be the level of water in the well has decreased because if you turn it off for a while the well recovers and the pump works the next time. That is a very small pump for what you are doing. Is there anyway to replace it with a submersible pump?

What would you recommend for a replacement of my old Teel? My "well guy" showed me something in his catalog that looked just like it for $900. I realize that Teel/Dayton is just a label on some other mfgs' pump, so I would like to pay less if possible, but still get a decent pump, or do I need to spend more for a good pump?

 

[Valveman]

Your Teel pump is probably fine. A 1/3 HP is not going to add much to the incoming pressure. I would turn the pressure switch on the well pump up by 10 PSI, then your Teel pump will be able to build pressure and shut off when needed.

 

[manich]

So I bit the bullet and replaced the old 1/3hp Teel booster pump with a 1/2hp F&W for $1,000. No problems for 3 days and then wake up this morning to find the pump running at 30psi and not increasing pressure. Something is emptying the line running up the hill from the well to my house. After an hour of running it finally starts getting enough water to get it back to 60psi and shuts off. Is this long dry running time damaging my new pump? This is the first time with the new pump, but with the old pump it would happen every 4 or 5 days. The pump contractor said he thought the 2 houses, 35' & 90' below me, might be running the same schedule of backwashing their neutralizer tanks during these episodes.

I have thought of narrowing my pressure switch to 60/50 to keep my pump coming on more often, and not allowing my line from emptying. I guess I might need to just replace the line running to my house if it might be cracked, or maybe installing a check valve at the bottom of my property to keep the lower guys from draining my line. My pump guy and I at at a loss for why this is happening just once or twice a week. Maybe I need a new pump guy.

thoughts
thanks

 

[Reach4]

Unfortunately, you may need a device to shut down your pump for a while if it runs dry.

See "Cycle Sensor" or Pumptec. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-protect-well-pump-from-dry-running.38286/ https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/low-water-level-protection.46922/

You would need a digital pressure switch to narrow your actual pump-running range. With the Psidekick set for 40/60 on the pressure switch and the CSV set for 50, the water will hold at 50 during your shower after the first minute. Note that many shower heads and kitchen faucets today have flow controls that keep the flow pretty constant over a range of pipe pressures.

I have my pressure switch currently set for 37/57 with a 44 gallon pressure tank and no CSV. I don't notice any effects of cycling. Maybe I am not so observant.