Black Polyethylene water main

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ericlinn

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Hello. I own a single family home in Baltimore Maryland. My home has a blue poly water main that I want to have replaced before failure. Most plumbers I have gotten estimates from say they will pull a new copper main through the poly line. But, one plumber has told me that you can not pull copper through a sleeved poly line because it will only last about 5 years. He said he only uses black polyethylene when pulling through an existing, sleeved water main.

Is this true? Is black poly any good? Or am I going to be waiting for another class action suit in 10 years?

Thanks,

Eric
 

Jimbo

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The blue pipe is most likely polybutylene.

Are you saying they want to pull copper through the PB? Seems like that is hard to do!

Unless soil conditions and water chemistry dictate otherwise, copper is probably the most durable water supply. However, black polyethylene and PVC are also widely used. If most of the work in your area is done with PE then that may be a good recommendation. Get estimates from a couple of contractors.

I don't understand the question about the sleeve and why that would result in short lifespan. Please explain.
 

Gary Slusser

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ericlinn said:
Hello. I own a single family home in Baltimore Maryland. My home has a blue poly water main that I want to have replaced before failure. Most plumbers I have gotten estimates from say they will pull a new copper main through the poly line. But, one plumber has told me that you can not pull copper through a sleeved poly line because it will only last about 5 years. He said he only uses black polyethylene when pulling through an existing, sleeved water main.

Is this true? Is black poly any good? Or am I going to be waiting for another class action suit in 10 years?

Thanks,

Eric

Black or blue polyethylene tubing at 160 or 200 psi ratied is the best choice for underground water service lines. Now if you're talking about polybutylene, a gray/blue color thin walled material, that's not the same animal but don't replace it until it proves you need to; it very probably won't leak. And in MD, you have a lot of acidic water problems that can eat copper in a hurry, like a couple to a few years. So make sure what type of material you have and then read up on the problems before you do anything else or you may find you've caused a problem you wouldn't have had otherwise.

Gary
Quality Water Associates
 

ericlinn

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Thanks for the replies guys. They actually cut the water main in side the house and break up the slab a little, then they dig down at the sevice valve outside. A cable is fed through the blue polyline. The cable has a cutter that has the new copper line attached to it. As the cable is pulled from outside the cutter slices the poly and drags the new copper line through.

The problem( so I have heard ) is that since the poly line was sleeved with corrugated black plastic this will cause the new copper line to sweat and cause it to fail much faster than copper placed directly in the ground.
 

Jimbo

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OK, I understand what you're doing now. But I still don't understand why condensation on the copper would cause it to fail. It is full of water on the inside!

I would ask for another opinion from a good reputable contractor.


The thing that creates skepticsm in those of us who are here on the internet trying to diagnose your situations sight unseen is that there are lots of good plumbers out there, but a few knucle-heads.

Recently on these forums we heard from one lady whose plumber told her that she could only take a c**p when the wind was blowing a certain way across her roof. Another homeowner was told to sell the house because the plumber could not solve a problem.

None of us are rocket scientists; there may be a wonderful explanation for what they are telling you, but get a second opinion.

Please post back because I and others are always open to learn about things we have not experiened before.
 

ericlinn

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It turns out that the plumber was correct in telling me not to use copper when doing a pull. I called the WSSC, which is my water provider, and they told me it is actually illegal to pull copper through and existing pipe and that it will react with the black corrugated plastic. It has nothing to do with the condensation, but some sort of reaction. The inspector for WSSC said that he would fail any installation that involved copper going through the black corrugated plastic.

If I want to run a new service line, copper is fine. If I want to do a pull, I must use the polyethylene.

Thanks again for the tips.
 

Jimbo

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Thanks very much for the reply. As I said before, I am always open to learn, and now you have your answer from an authoritative source.
 

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The corrosion would be on the outside of the copper inside the conduit. Md has a large problem with acidic rain and groundwater. Frankly the inspector telling you that copper is okay is the 'company' line type CYA stuff. Do some research on the tens of thousands of water company customers in your area that currently have leaking copper water lines. It was written up in national publications and many times there in the local area just this past spring/summer.

Also check out this white paper from the inspector's employer but realize it is aged and not current to local problems today.

http://www.wssc.dst.md.us/service/copperpipe.html

Gary
Quality Water Associates
 
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