Black pipe surface rust

[Jeff H Young]

Im not usually overly concerned with black pipe rusting out except in very damp environment . true in exposed visable location not overly concerned as well. the grease might not be acceptable plumbing codes are tricky on some things and It might be a technical violation,
You have your gas system inspected yearly?

 

[DIYorBust]

Im not usually overly concerned with black pipe rusting out except in very damp environment . true in exposed visable location not overly concerned as well. the grease might not be acceptable plumbing codes are tricky on some things and It might be a technical violation,
You have your gas system inspected yearly?

I believe it's every 4 years, by a master plumber. The plumbers don't seem to like it that much because it's a lot of liability and it doesn't pay that well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Sylvan]

I am sure LI is not as restrictive as NYC

I was on a job this morning water jetting a kitchen line and gravel came out of the line.

So that piqued my curiosity and opened a wall with the owner's permission and found that the so-called plumber allowed stormwater to enter the sanitary system as NYC with their amazing wisdom does NOT inspect the roughing only the finished work

In other words, anything behind the wall is not seen just the fixtures after the walls and floors are in

So I decided to look at the gas piping as all pipes must be sleeved with a steel pipe BUT the gas lines here had PVC ( no code)

so I went on the DOB web site and found this was a "self-inspection" meaning the plumber installs all the waste, water supply, gas, and sanitary and vent lines and inspects their own work

I yet to find any plumber who fails themselves

 

[Jeff H Young]

DIY was implying NYC in post 3. no actual mention of the project location

 

[DIYorBust]

DIY was implying NYC in post 3. no actual mention of the project location

Thanks, this project is in NYC. There are a lot more options for installing gas on LI. I actually propane there with a flare fitted soft copper. Makes me nervous some times after seeing the NYC standards, but it's never caused a problem.

Now in the city black pipe is used, and that is obviously more robust and should be safer. But like sylvan points out, self certification on the roughing, along with complicated or vague rules and the efforts to get around them often results in a less safe system in my experiences.

Can you use galvanized pipe outside? Must you use it? Ask 3 plumbers get 3 answers. Can you use plastic gas line underground? It seems like no, but the utilities use it for all the service lines. So what can you use? Mil tape wrapped black pipe? Doesn't seem ideal.

Hey speaking of mil wrap, would I fail if I put that on the gas lines in the cellar instead of paint?

 

[Sylvan]

I never have seen anyone use mill wrap on piping inside.

I have used it underground or used coal tar enamel applied hot and 15# felt and then tested the insulation with a tool that detects voids in the insulation by sparking with a high amp setting

The utility does use plastic underground but plumbers cannot

As far as galvanized I have used it inside a building but had to prove the area had a high moisture content for example 1650 3rd ave the building was over 100 years old at that time

The reason I suggested WD 40 or even oil on the piping as it does protect it to a point and will not hide any leaks

A lot of plumbers have black pipe sitting in the shop for decades and when it is used on a job they take a rag oil-soaked and wipe the pipe to make the piping look like it was recently made.

My company last week started another gas job as the other plumber installed 3 gas meters outside the building and did a self-inspection

When the new owner bought the multi-family home Con Ed/ DOB placed a violation on the site and we filed the job to place the meters inside where the original plans called for it

I suggested the new owner get a lawyer and sue the plumbing contractor and the old owner and look upon the NYC web site who did the alteration to recoup the money cost him

Speaking of soft copper NOT LEGAL IN NYC back in 1970 I was an apprentice and was opening a wall on 30 Central park west and as I was cutting the sheetrock I head "Air" not realizing I had cut a copper gas line (not legal) in a dental office

The journeymen panicked I just crimped the line until we could trace the line and find the shut-off

(USN training don't panic)

 

[DIYorBust]

What kind of oil do you soak the rag in? I'm not crazy about wd40 since it's kind of smelly and I worry it won't last very long. Perhaps some kind of heavier oil would be better? Engine oil maybe?

 

[Sylvan]

I used cutting oil or old motor oil.. Very light coating but becareful

 

[DIYorBust]

I used cutting oil or old motor oil.. Very light coating but becareful

Thanks Sylvan, that's exactly what I was wondering about. I have both, but it's not a large area and the cutting oil seems cleaner so I'm leaning towards that.

What do I need to be careful about besides making a mess?

And just to be clear, the soft copper is on long island, far from the city. No question it is not allowed in the five boroughs, and with good reason. But I will say this of it. It does not rust.

 

[Sylvan]

I was wondering what NYC would say if I used schedule 80 black pipe and if they would take that into consideration when piping a job

Red Brass pipe does not rust either but I think it would be cost-prohibitive to use it

 

[DIYorBust]

Red brass is too expensive, if you recall you helped me with some advice on my 1920s red brass water lines in my home. The stuff has probably 3 times the copper of copper tubing, and I have no pinholes after 100 years, but a red brass nipple could cost as much as 30 feet of copper. Galvanized gas would probably hold up for 100 years too. However on this nyc project we decommissioned some 1870 bgas line that was in perfect condition
I wonder what thet put on that because my new black pipe fittings have only held up 3 months before rusting.

 

[Sylvan]

For a period they used Yellow brass 60% copper 40% Zinc which over the years caused failure due to dezincification and the piping became very brittle

They decided to use Red Brass 85% copper 15 Zinc with great results

When possible I used to use TP (Stainly G Flagg) flow fittings and red brass piping with no threads and brazed all the joints.

This should last about 300 years