Best way to install pressure regulator

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by pizzamonger, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Hi, I have a 60 year old house, only one bathroom. Pressure readings show 90psi. The 3/4” copper pipe from the street to the house goes into a 1/2” at the hose bib on the front of the house. There isn’t much room to add a regulator. The 3/4” comes up out of the planter and then there is maybe 4” up to the hose bib, then it goes into a 1/2” and immediately into the foundation. Is the best practice to reroute the pipe into a little side loop before the hose bib to add a regulator?
     
  2. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    08787A04-CE7E-40E6-9375-CD5A1552C035.jpeg

    And the shutoff valve is there too...

    EAEC3BC8-E95C-4E3E-AE9E-6DC65EF8B56B.jpeg
     
  3. Sponsor

    Sponsor Paid Advertisement

     
  4. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Not much room. Probably gonna need to move the ball valve down to have room to install a PRV.
     
    pizzamonger likes this.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Offsetting the pipe is the most common way to do it.
     
    pizzamonger likes this.
  6. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Thanks for the replies! By offsetting the pipe, do you mean going out at a 90, up 90 to new valve and back in at 90? Here is my amateur drawing. Green would be new valve.

    Is there any sense to dig down to put it in-line and put some sort of enclosure to hold dirt back from the new valve?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  7. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    That would work. But, many people like the higher pressure for the hose bib. Is there a location inside of the house where you can consider installing a PRV? Keep in mind, you should also install an expansion tank at the same time for the water heater.
     
    pizzamonger likes this.
  9. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    I don’t mind the lower pressure at the hose bib. It could go after the foundation in the crawl space and then be inline. But Id have to crawl back in there to check it. Dirt floor, not very high ceiling. Is that realistic?

    A pressure tank. I have now read that the pressure valve will make my system closed loop. Is it possible my water meter already has backflow prevention and Im already in a closed loop? Will adding a PRV without a pressure tank be worse than not adding a PRV at all?


    D8100ED0-DF9D-4F19-9288-E3FFEB1FF05F.jpeg
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Occupation:
    Pump Controls Technician
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    A lot of cities are adding back flow to the meters. If that is the case and/or you add a pressure reducing valve, an expansion tank is a good idea. Some pressure reducing valves have a thermal bypass to let expanded water go back to the city. But if the city meter has a back flow device and/or you add a PRV without a thermal expansion bypass, an expansion tank should be added. The water heater expands the water in a closed system and without a thermal bypass or expansion tank, the house pressure can get very high when the water is heated.
     
    pizzamonger likes this.
  11. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired Systems engineer for defense industry.
    Location:
    New England
    Local code where I live requires an ET with a PRV. I don't know if that is or has become a national code thing, but it's prudent as the EPA has been pushing check valves to protect the water supply, and with one, you'll have a closed system and are likely to put undue stress on your plumbing. Things like washing machine hoses, flexible faucet supply lines or dishwasher ones just don't like being over pressurized over a long period. Unless there's a leak in your system to relieve the expansion (hoses will tend to balloon some, but not enough), your T&P valve on the water heater will open after using a moderate amount of hot water as it tries to heat up the incoming, denser cold water. The rigid pipes won't expand under the pressure from your supply, so any expansion can immediately raise the pressure - the water doesn't compress and the pipes won't expand...recipe for problems. The T&P valve on the WH generally is designed to open at 150psi...way more than your normal home water pressure and nearly double the maximum recommended. With an ET, the pressure should not rise much, if at all, when it is working properly.
     
  12. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    I understand the concept that the water heater expands the pressure. And the reason to add the expansion tank. A lot of people around me have regulators and no expansion tank. So I am wondering:

    Will adding a regulator without an expansion tank make the regulator benefit worthless? Is it worth adding the regulator and not the expansion tank?

    Can I get a regulator that allows backflow?

    Any recommendations for the type of regulator I should be adding?
     
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018 at 10:07 AM
    pizzamonger likes this.
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Remember, a "bypass" does NOT function until the house pressure exceeds the water main pressure. An expansion tank keeps the pressure close to the reduced pressure setting.
     
    pizzamonger and Reach4 like this.
  15. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Can anyone recommend a quality valve to use?

    I am in southern california, and strangely, while everyone seems to have PRV's, nobody has an expansion tank that I know, and I have now asked 3 licensed plumbers, and none seem to think it necessary. Odd that other places it is state law. Could it be the incoming water temperature being higher to begin with? Are we just dingbats here in socal?
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Where do you shop for such stuff? Are you shopping near Canoga Park, or what?
     
  17. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Are there that many different brands? I figured I would just order online if I knew which one to get. I have some supply stores nearby, like Ferguson, not sure if I have to be a licensed plumber to buy it?
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    They are not going to require that, I am pretty sure. They will probably charge you more than they would their regular customers. But you are going to tank more time than their regular customers.

    I am not a plumber.
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018 at 6:29 PM
  20. pizzamonger

    pizzamonger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2018
    Location:
    CA
    Poway and Hollywood are only 3 hours away from each other. I thought my other posts would be clear, no expansion tank. Wondering what regulator to get.
     
  21. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Both in southern California.

    Yeah, I misunderstood when I thought you said nobody had expansion tanks in southern California. I missed the necessary part.

    You could get a pressure gauge to see if a thermal expansion tank is necessary. A garden hose thread pressure gauge could be checked as the water heats after a long hot shower.

    The "thermal expansion relief" / bypass feature would not help if the city put a check valve into the line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018 at 4:25 AM
Similar Threads: Best install
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Toto Ultramax - What is the best replacement valve to install? Jun 24, 2015
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Air Eliminator on Buffer Tank - best way install the expansion tank??? Jul 5, 2013
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Best tool for installing garbage disposal Oct 9, 2012
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Best way to install cleanouts Apr 8, 2008
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Best way to install a new tub drain Mar 7, 2008

Share This Page