Best Rimless Flushing Technology

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

Hello everyone,

I'm shopping for new toilets and was wondering what the best rimless flushing technologies are. The mainstream ones seem to be Kohler Revolution 360, American Standards Vormax, and Toto Tornado. Are there any other ones? And which one is the best?

Some criteria for the best is:
1. Clearance (the new Toto 746's are so problematic and unsanitary for the men because the bowl isn't deep enough at the front, even for the chair height and elongated models)
2. Amount of splashing (Again, the Toto 746's splash the most)
3. Number of jets (Toto has two, I believe AS and Kohler have one)
4. Power (Toto and Kohler both use flush towers, so supposed they are more powerful, however, most tests show the dual flapper AS one to be most powerful)
5. Skidmarks and residue (It appears that AS is the best, with Toto being the worst)
6. Water level (Toto is the lowest/worst, AS is the highest/best)
7. Odour (mainly a problem with the Toto because of low water level)
8. Packaging (Kohler has the strongest packaging, with Toto having the weakest)

My personal opinion of these companies is: AS has quality control issues, Kohler has great designs but is ultra proprietary, and Toto's new 746 line has so many complaints but the older Drake II's are great. I've heard that a Toto representative said that Toto is aware of the multiple issues and will replace the toilets if needed and that the 746's will most likely be shortly discontinued.

My personal evaluation is that AS seems to have the best rimless technology, with Kohler a close second. If Toto fixes the issues with the 746's it will probably be on par with Kohler.

 

[Terry]

The CST454 Drake II is my favorite, not among the four listed above though.
The A/S Vormax has twice the number of flappers in the tank, that's a little odd.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

Actually, that Toto model has the old tornado flush, which in my opinion, is much better. And I think A/S Vormax borrowed the dual flapper system from the Champion and repurposed it for the swirl flush. Since I'm purchasing two toilet's, I'll get a Kohler with Rev 360. I have to decide between A/S and Toto for the other one, because of A/S lacklustre quality control and Toto having lots of broken tanks/bowls due to thin packaging. That's between the 454 Drake's and an A/S with Vormax. Thanks for your help!
'll

 

[Terry]

I pick up my inventory from supply houses. It's always perfect.
However, when shipped individually, it can easily break.

 

[Terry]

CST746 series = DYNAMAX TORNADO FLUSH® utilizes 360? cleaning power to reach every part of the bowl

CST454 series = Tornado Flushing System

I prefer the Tornado system, not the Dynamax Tornado.

Why they have completely different systems and swap the names back and forth is pretty lame.
I used to say that Drake and Ultramax were good toilets, and now I have to specify which models I'm willing to sell and which ones I'm avoiding.

 

[HaroldW]

I'm also looking at new toilets and I like the idea of a rimless design, but I also prefer a lower height. I thought the Drake 746 was going to be perfect, but the various reports have made me hesitant. I talked to someone who seemed to brush off the issues, but I'd hate to end up with a toilet I need to replace in a few months. I'm half-tempted to just get another cheap toilet and wait to see what happens. Are there other options I'm missing?

 

[Sesquipedalian]

I saw the Kohler Cimarron with the 360 flush in person but did not see it flush. I saw the AS and the CST 454CEFG Toto in person and saw them flush. I saw the Toto Dynamax Tornado in person too but did not see it flush. It has a very shallow bowl and in my humble opinion, it is a terrible design.

Unless you see these toilets flush with some color added, it can be hard to see how much water comes down the sides and back especially in the ones without the swirl action. Out of the 2 that I actually saw flush, it would seem that the AS might clear the bowl better but the only way to really know would be to have hands on experience in real use conditions. The dual flapper design is just too many working parts for my liking. The Kohler had a real deep bowl, I would think for the swirl to be most effective that the bowl would have to be not quite as deep but that is just an assumption on my part.

In my search for a toilet, I gave AS, and Kohler fair consideration but in the end, Toto was the logical choice for me. There are a lot of complaints online about AS having cracked tank problems along with other issues. Kohler has a lot of complaints about leaks and having to replace parts on
their newer system. Some people mention having to change it multiple times within a year or so. I mentioned hearing about QC issues with AS at a couple of AS dealers and they agreed that there were issues. One of the AS toilets at an AS dealer had a big spot that was not glazed on one of the tank covers.

It seems like there is a possibility of matter not washing away on all the newer toilets in certain situations, no matter what brand or what flushing system. As stated by others on this forum, you can hold the handle down for more water for the flush. A really stubborn situation might require manual cleaning. Personally, I prefer a toilet without a special gloss coating. I know it helps somewhat but it limits how you can clean it and what you can use.

 

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

Definitely, the 746's are off the table for me. Still considering the 454's with the Tornado flush and the A/S with Vormax. In general, I feel like the Kohler with Rev 360 seems like the best balance, it has better quality control than A/S, but it also has a deep bowl and better design than Toto.

 

[Berry]

Having had a Toto Drake II CST454 series installed a couple months ago, I can tell you I have had no issues whatsoever with it.

No splashing
No skidmarks / residue
Powerful flush that cleans the bowl every time

For a 1 GPF toilet, I am quite amazed at its performance. We have not had to clean the bowl once. The technology just works

As far as "packaging", I bought mine off of Amazon. It was shipped from Texas to PA via UPS which entailed multiple times loading and offloading onto different trucks in different UPS depots. It arrived in perfect condition. There are zero issues I could see with the packaging. In fact I thought Toto did a great job with the packing materials so not sure how anyone could conclude Toto has weak packaging

 

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

That's great! Definitely considering the 454's. For some reason, lots of reviews at other online stores say that is arrived broken and it came with super-thin packaging so I guess you're just lucky. I'm still stuck between the A/S Vormax and Toto 454's but leaning towards the Toto.

 

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

Hi guys, just wanted to provide an update! So upon further research, it seems A/S Vormax is the most powerful, but it also has the most complex mechanism with two flappers. Kohler Revolution 360 is the quickest (it also seems the least powerful) flush of the swirl flushes because it only swirls once, perhaps the AquaPiston is working differently. Toto Tornado Flush seems to be the cleanest flush with three main nozzles to distribute the water more evenly.

So I'm definitely getting a Toto 454! Now I'm just stuck between Rev 360 and Vormax for the other toilet, it's really hard for me to decide. On one hand, the Kohler's flush is a bit too fast and is weaker, while A/S has worse quality control and a more complex mechanism. Just because I want to avoid the hassle of returning broken A/S toilets because the Rev 360 flush seems sufficient, I might go for the Kohler in the less commonly used restroom or simply get Toto for both. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Azan - Syed Azan Ali]

Does anyone know if all the Drake 2's now come with flush towers (previously only on 1 g model) or still with flappers for 1.28 g?

 

[martin]

Hey everyone,

I've been researching rimless flushing technologies for toilets and came across an interesting article that compares various toilet bowl brands in Singapore. They discuss popular brands like Baron, Vera and Rubine along with other alternatives. The article examines factors such as clearance, splashing, power, skidmarks, water level, and even odor. If you're interested, you can check out the article here: https://bestchoicelightsbath.com.sg/2023/05/23/comparison-of-toilet-bowl-brands-in-singapore/

The article highlights that Baron offers impressive rimless technology, providing efficient and hygienic flushing. It is known for its clean and powerful flush, ensuring a hassle-free experience. Rubine also stands out with its excellent rimless design, delivering effective and thorough flushing.

Additionally, Vera, another brand discussed in the article, offers its own unique features and advantages.

Feel free to explore the article for more in-depth insights and comparisons. It might help you make an informed decision when shopping for new toilets. Let me know if you have any other questions or if you've come across other notable brands!

Happy toilet shopping!

 

[TonyaGilmore]

Wow...That's great!!