Antique toilet 14" rough in

[lanachurner]

My guess is that he never looked at the Totos I linked that have an old-time style to them, but work with modern efficiency...IMHO, best of both worlds, the looks and the economy. Flush that 6-gallons or so then take a hot shower, and the thing will be dripping wet from the cold water to fil it.

Professor Pangloss,
And my guess is that you might have no clue about style, are a rigid, overbearing type who can never be wrong about anything, have a perverse, monomaniacal interest in other people's business and will practice a scorched earth policy to prove it.

 

[Plumbs Away]

lanachurner, I'd like your design advice on my bathroom remodel. I'm going with retro/modern. My fixtures are white, the wall tiles are two-tone avocado/lime green. The floor tile is being replaced with white penny-round mosaic with avocado green grout. The sink and tub are Kohler cast iron and I'm having them reglazed. They're still structurally sound but they no longer shine. My 1968 Gerber Mount Vernon toilet works like a charm, but my aging male body and my city water/sewer bill require a modern, elongated ADA height model. Given that info, which of the two toilets pictured would you recommend???

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Terry]

I think changing to a 14" rough to fit the toilet you have may be a good idea. Do you have access to the floor from below?
And is the plumbing in-line with where the 2" extension would go? If you do have to tile the floor, you could go with some nice period stuff.
Having remodeled 200 bathrooms, I'm sure you have some good ideas of what you like. I say go for it.

 

[Standardairconditioner]

The sink and tub are Kohler cast iron and I'm having them reglazed. They're still structurally sound but they no longer shine.

Hold old are these? Re-glazing is all epoxy, that only lasts about 10-15 yrs, and then after that it starts to look totally hideous, yellowing, flaking, chipping, certainly worse than your current look. I would only use epoxy on surfaces that are very distressed, the point where epoxy will only make things better. They still look good in your pics. You don't have a glass glaze, the white subdued eggshell finish is normal after age and use. Nothing beats a factory glaze, which is what you still have on there now. Have your tried automotive compound? It takes a lot longer to do it by hand, faster with a polisher (not to be confused with a buffer).

my aging male body

You may also want to consider something that is easy to clean and wipe, where dirt and pee can't hide into edges and creases. Once piece toilets with a simple base makes for an easy time to wipe with a sponge anytime. A toilet that is easier to clean means you will clean it more often, and this promotes healthy living. I like my bathroom to smell better than my bedroom.

 

[Jadnashua]

Professor Pangloss,
And my guess is that you might have no clue about style, are a rigid, overbearing type who can never be wrong about anything, have a perverse, monomaniacal interest in other people's business and will practice a scorched earth policy to prove it.

Did you actually look at the toilets that I linked to? Or, just pass it by as irrelevant. Here are a couple pictures.

 

[Plumbs Away]

Hold old are these? Re-glazing is all epoxy, that only lasts about 10-15 yrs, and then after that it starts to look totally hideous, yellowing, flaking, chipping, certainly worse than your current look. I would only use epoxy on surfaces that are very distressed, the point where epoxy will only make things better. They still look good in your pics. You don't have a glass glaze, the white subdued eggshell finish is normal after age and use. Nothing beats a factory glaze, which is what you still have on there now. Have your tried automotive compound? It takes a lot longer to do it by hand, faster with a polisher (not to be confused with a buffer).


You may also want to consider something that is easy to clean and wipe, where dirt and pee can't hide into edges and creases. Once piece toilets with a simple base makes for an easy time to wipe with a sponge anytime. A toilet that is easier to clean means you will clean it more often, and this promotes healthy living. I like my bathroom to smell better than my bedroom.

The Kohler fixtures were installed new in '68, when the house was built. The contractor who built my house almost always used Kohler Wellworth toilets, but sometimes substituted either Gerber Mount Vernons or American Standard Cadets. I love the original Gerber toilets in my house, but, as mentioned before, they're 5 GPF models, and I can't justify that. And I do prefer the ADA-height elongated. The toilets I provided pics of are both one-piece and skirted, thus hiding the hideous turtle neck trap. The first one pictured is the Gerber Avalanche and the second is the Gerber Wicker Park, formerly known as the Danze Ziga Zaga. Gerber and Danze share corporate headquarters, so maybe they merged??? Both are 1.28 GPF, have 1,000 gram MaP ratings and use universal repair parts.

As for my Kohler fixtures that are staying, the surface that doesn't come into contact with water is still showroom shiny. Since I've had great luck with muriatic acid bringing old toilet bowls back to shining life, I thought it might do the same for the tub and sink. Nothing. Here's a link for the company I'm planning to use for the reglazing: www.bestbathtubfinish.com They offer three levels of service and the one I plan to go with is their best (and naturally, most expensive) and it's guaranteed for life. It's about $900 for both fixtures.

 

[Plumbs Away]

I have to throw my 2¢ in on the matter of old fixtures. A few years back, I lived in a rented condo in Washington, D.C. The toilet was a 1959 Briggs that was awful. Stained, no siphon jet, prone to clogging, etc., etc. My landlord was of the mindset that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I went to a Habitat for Humanity ReStore and found a perfect American Standard Cadet from 1972 with an elongated bowl for $35. I rebuilt the tank with a Korky fill valve and the correct tilt valve since previous experience had taught me that retrofitting those old Cadets with a flapper compromises the flush, put on a fresh, new plastic seat, and had a great toilet. No one was the wiser. Where I'm going with this is, what regulatory authority, in any jurisdiction (except for possibly California or Texas), is really policing private toilets???

 

[Jadnashua]

I have to throw my 2¢ in on the matter of old fixtures. A few years back, I lived in a rented condo in Washington, D.C. The toilet was a 1959 Briggs that was awful. Stained, no siphon jet, prone to clogging, etc., etc. My landlord was of the mindset that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I went to a Habitat for Humanity ReStore and found a perfect American Standard Cadet from 1972 with an elongated bowl for $35. I rebuilt the tank with a Korky fill valve and the correct tilt valve since previous experience had taught me that retrofitting those old Cadets with a flapper compromises the flush, put on a fresh, new plastic seat, and had a great toilet. No one was the wiser. Where I'm going with this is, what regulatory authority, in any jurisdiction (except for possibly California or Texas), is really policing private toilets???

Any place that is serious about their building permit process. In most places, a handyman or owner can repair something in place, but a permit is required to replace it. Yes, I know lots of people do not follow the rules. Where it is illegal, a licensed plumber is at risk when work is done without a permit and inspection.

 

[WJcandee]

I just want to know so I know how to act here.

Please. Now I will do what I do with trolls...ignore.

 

[WJcandee]

I pull this one next week for a TOTO Vespin II with 14" Unifit.

That is a remarkably-modern-looking tank on a toilet that old. I guess the new handle reinforces that impression, but it is interesting in that it has such bold lines.

 

[lanachurner]

lanachurner, I'd like your design advice on my bathroom remodel. I'm going with retro/modern. My fixtures are white, the wall tiles are two-tone avocado/lime green. The floor tile is being replaced with white penny-round mosaic with avocado green grout. The sink and tub are Kohler cast iron and I'm having them reglazed. They're still structurally sound but they no longer shine. My 1968 Gerber Mount Vernon toilet works like a charm, but my aging male body and my city water/sewer bill require a modern, elongated ADA height model. Given that info, which of the two toilets pictured would you recommend???
View attachment 33700 View attachment 33701 View attachment 33702 View attachment 33703 View attachment 33704

I agree with standardair. That reglazing process is an epoxy coating and is not a good value. I have torn out probably 15 older tubs that had been reglazed that the coating was flaking off. A few of them that had only lasted 4 or 5 years. The homeowners were unhappy about it especially when they had replaced the floor and of course a new tub will never have the same profile at the floor do they had to replace the floor so it fit up to the profile of the new tub. If you want some color to your fixtures check out some of the Kohler models. I put a sage green one piece in a remodel a few years ago. Dunno if they make matching sink and tubs though. I think not.
I would not mix and match color of fixtures though. Just like you wouldn't have 2 different color seats in your car. Sad but true that the glory days of of matching colored fixtures are long past.
But white is still nice. And it is an expected color. Don't forget you can add a lot of color to a bath with the tile, paint, shower curtains and towels. The latter can easily be changed to freshen up a bath.
I think accents in the tile - both wall and floor can give you the color you like. You can build a great bathroom with cheap wall tile if you accent it well.
Also, you don't generally use a different grout color to accent with. Keep your grout neutral and accent the bath with tile insets of a different color or texture.
I suggest you go to someplace like the Tile Shop for some great ideas on tile design. They have a lot of bathroom mock-ups to get ideas from. Their tile will be expensive but you can get some nice ideas there and buy cheaper tile elsewhere.
I wish you were closer. We could put our heads together and figure out what you like and what you want to say with your design.
PM your phone number if you like and I would be happy to help you.

 

[lanachurner]

Did you actually look at the toilets that I linked to? Or, just pass it by as irrelevant. Here are a couple pictures.

Some of the best elective classes I ever took was a couple of art and art appreciation classes. They gave me the rudiments of what art does for us, a bit of the history of art and how it has evolved since the earliest pictographs in caves to a bit of archetectural progression, etc.
They didn't make me an artist or an expert on anything but gave me a glimpse of how and why art and design is important in life. Further reading on my own and working with some interior designers has helped me appreciate shapes, color, lighting and texture.
If you ever want to expand your aesthetic awareness take at least one art appreciation class. It will be money and time we'll spent.
Getting back to your toilets. Those are very modern designs. No way would they fit in our bathroom. The first one is particularly ugly because of the afterthought of bulbous stuff on the lid. The second one is much cleaner and nicer but is still very modern.
Here are some photos of the toilet I want to use. Notice the bowl doesn't have an exposed trap which all modern toilets have that i think makes them look cheap. Notice the the little beads cast into the rim. Look how it doesn't look engineered to save every gram of porcelain. It is sturdy and voluptuous.
Same with the tank. It is heavy, almost oversized compared to the bowl. Look at the great flush handle I just bought for $20. Also the color isn't so bright white as the new ones. To me, some things are enough to make me flout the laws and err on the side of design.
I hope you understand.

 

[Plumbs Away]

I agree with standardair. That reglazing process is an epoxy coating and is not a good value. I have torn out probably 15 older tubs that had been reglazed that the coating was flaking off. A few of them that had only lasted 4 or 5 years. The homeowners were unhappy about it especially when they had replaced the floor and of course a new tub will never have the same profile at the floor do they had to replace the floor so it fit up to the profile of the new tub. If you want some color to your fixtures check out some of the Kohler models. I put a sage green one piece in a remodel a few years ago. Dunno if they make matching sink and tubs though. I think not.
I would not mix and match color of fixtures though. Just like you wouldn't have 2 different color seats in your car. Sad but true that the glory days of of matching colored fixtures are long past.
But white is still nice. And it is an expected color. Don't forget you can add a lot of color to a bath with the tile, paint, shower curtains and towels. The latter can easily be changed to freshen up a bath.
I think accents in the tile - both wall and floor can give you the color you like. You can build a great bathroom with cheap wall tile if you accent it well.
Also, you don't generally use a different grout color to accent with. Keep your grout neutral and accent the bath with tile insets of a different color or texture.
I suggest you go to someplace like the Tile Shop for some great ideas on tile design. They have a lot of bathroom mock-ups to get ideas from. Their tile will be expensive but you can get some nice ideas there and buy cheaper tile elsewhere.
I wish you were closer. We could put our heads together and figure out what you like and what you want to say with your design.
PM your phone number if you like and I would be happy to help you.

Maybe I was somewhat unclear. Whether or not I choose to reglaze, the fixtures will remain white. If I could find 12 tiles that match what is presently on the floor, I would opt for repairing what is there. However, the oblong hexagonal in avocado green is very elusive. That's why I decided to go with the white penny round mosaic porcelain floor tile. The fixtures are white, the wall tiles are lime and avocado green, and I thought the avocado grout with the white floor tile would tie it all together.

I don't want to replace my vintage Kohler tub and sink. My tub is open on the back end and is a rarity and my undermount sink fits exactly as it should. But I didn't get your advice on the toilets, Lana.

 

[Plumbs Away]

Any place that is serious about their building permit process. In most places, a handyman or owner can repair something in place, but a permit is required to replace it. Yes, I know lots of people do not follow the rules. Where it is illegal, a licensed plumber is at risk when work is done without a permit and inspection.

Where in these United States of America, is a permit required to replace a toilet? I hate to drag this out, but I'm being serious. Is there, ANYWHERE, that some regulatory authority is going to go door-to-door to ensure that your toilet is compliant???

 

[Jadnashua]

Many people replace things without a permit, but in more than a few places, repairs are okay, but replacement requires a permit. CA and MA are a couple, but you can find lots of others if you search. If you're moving something, that almost universally requires a permit, but just replacement does as well in more than a few places.

 

[lanachurner]

Many people replace things without a permit, but in more than a few places, repairs are okay, but replacement requires a permit. CA and MA are a couple, but you can find lots of others if you search. If you're moving something, that almost universally requires a permit, but just replacement does as well in more than a few places.

Most places in the US it's illegal to drive over the speed limit.
But have you been on any freeways lately? Most places it's unlawful to ogle pretty girls. It's a form of harassment. But I think it still happens and dark sunglasses are popular sellers.
In Minnesota it is illegal to do daycare - for anyone - unless you're licenced but there are a lot of grandmas here who ignore that law.
In the US you are legally required to pay income taxes on the proceeds from a yard sale but I'll bet most of those proceeds don't get reported.
In many states it is illegal to buy tickets from an individual or for an individual to resell tickets to a major league sports game. But stand outside a stadium on game day and you will see there is a hot market for illegal tickets.
In most municipalities recycling is required.
Yet you still see a few pop or beer cans in the trash.
It is unlawful to swear in public but in some neighborhoods I hear the Fbomb spoken loudly.
Are you getting my drift?
If not, you might want to go back and reread Plato. He said that when a state passes too many petty laws that the citizens feel no moral compunction to follow it creates a nation of scofflaws and is detrimental to the public good.

 

[Jadnashua]

The best case use of a forum, is to provide people with information that is legal. If they choose to ignore it, or break the law, that's their issue, but to provide an answer that is not correct, should be avoided. I'm not talking about making a mistake, that happens with anyone, and hopefully, caught by others before things get out of hand. AT least the intent of the plumbing, electrical, etc., permits and inspections, is to ensure that things are done properly. A second set of eyes on something may help.

 

[lanachurner]

The best case use of a forum, is to provide people with information that is legal. If they choose to ignore it, or break the law, that's their issue, but to provide an answer that is not correct, should be avoided. I'm not talking about making a mistake, that happens with anyone, and hopefully, caught by others before things get out of hand. AT least the intent of the plumbing, electrical, etc., permits and inspections, is to ensure that things are done properly. A second set of eyes on something may help.

And the worst case use of a forum is to have someone who won't have their advice ignored and repeats themselves over and over - and over - again.
How many times in this thread alone have you repeated your dire warnings about codes and laws?
Do you think there is anyone here who hasn't heard you by now?

 

[WJcandee]

Interesting how attitudes on this forum have changed in 10 years. Here is a thread about showerheads where some of our favorite earlier professionals responded to a question about high-flow showerheads.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/what-is-the-best-shower-head-for-high-flow.32442/

 

[WJcandee]

And the worst case use of a forum is to have someone who won't have their advice ignored and repeats themselves over and over - and over - again.
How many times in this thread alone have you repeated your dire warnings about codes and laws?
Do you think there is anyone here who hasn't heard you by now?

I am going to break my own rule about ignoring trolls.

Hey, Pal. Even if you were right, which you are not, you are JUST AS BAD. We have all heard YOU bitching and bitching about someone who simply has a different opinion, and has backed that opinion up with laws and facts, and admitted where he was mistaken about the application of those laws.

And, like all bullies who don't have a legal leg to stand on, you have resorted to attacking the guy personally because you don't like what he has to say.

You don't have to respond to every one of Jim's posts.

This is the most unpleasant thread I have had read on here in a long time. And it's YOUR fault.

Okay, you are back on "ignore".