Another Well Water Pressure Issue and maybe others

[TJ.]

So for the last year or two, have been having to replace Kenmore Whole house filter monthly. Lately have gone to every 2.5 to 3 weeks removing filter and cleaning it off. Years ago, didn't replace it nearly as often. So, since being in the house for 18+years, I've replaced the Craftsman 3/4 hp hydro glass shallow well pump once back in 2004. Some time since then, I've replaced seals and nozzles once but thinking I may need to replace again as low water pressure has been an issue. It builds to 60 psi shuts off and turns on about 40 as it should.
I replaced the bladder tank couple years ago as it was old and wasn't acting right. Turns out it was full of sand. I dont know if this happened because 5 or so years ago I had a suction side issue that turned out to be a cracked fitting on top of the well pipe. That well pipe is about 15 ft in front of the house and 3 ft under ground.

Anyway, I pulled the pump off and going to open it up to see if parts are clogged up. Its been a while since I have had to service this pump. I may need to change to a different brand since parts for it now are ridiculously priced or NLA.

Just in case I haven't been jumping around or confusing enough for you, check out the pic I took today. I cleaned this filter off of some slime 2 days ago and its now got this goo on it. Doesn't smell, yep I put my nose on it. I've never seen the filter like this. Its normally a light brown silt. This almost looks like a nasty christmas fruit cake log.

I"ve never sanitized the well that supplies the house. We have another well that original owner used to water azaleas and never sanitized that one either. That one's another story.

 

[TJ.]

So after taking pump off and looking inside I didn't see anything clogging the nozzle. Cleaned pump inside of the silt, flushed the nozzle, pulled the diffuser to look at impeller and it looks ok to me. Flushed that out too. After draining pressure tank checked the pressure at 35lbs so aired it up to 38. Put all back together with a new pressure gauge. I suspected the old gauge but wasn't sure. After plugging pump in and running I realized the pumptrol pressure switch had to be adjusted alot to get it to turn on 40 and off at 60. Once adjusted to turn on pump takes along time to get to 55 lbs. Scared to let it run much longer I adjusted the small spring to get it to turn off at 55. Tried adjusting again this morning but still not getting up to 60lbs. I suspect, that I was never getting 60lbs of pressure at the pump with the old gauge because it had no problem reaching it and would shut off. The pumptrol pressure switch is only a year old, I've replaced a few of these but its normally when the contacts get burn up. Everything looks good with this one.
Here's some pics of setup. The setup filter behind the softener is not being used. We used to be able to keep a carbon filter in it but with lower pressures we can't put that filter in.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TJ.]

More....cleaning the pipes of dust and dirt would have been a good thing to keep up appearances

 

[Reach4]

If your cut-in is now 35, set your air precharge to 30 psi. If the precharge is set too high, you will get a stutter in the water pressure when the pump turns on before the jet pump is delivering pressure.

If your pump struggles to get to 55, I think you would be better to set your pressure switch to 30/50, and then use a 25 psi air precharge.

 

[LLigetfa]

Hard to tell from the pic if the filter is meant to be disposable or reusable but cleaning a disposable filter may not restore it to like new condition.

If the pump struggles to reach cutoff, it may be due to low water table, clogged sandpoint or well screen, or suction leak.

 

[TJ.]

Hard to tell from the pic if the filter is meant to be disposable or reusable but cleaning a disposable filter may not restore it to like new condition.

If the pump struggles to reach cutoff, it may be due to low water table, clogged sandpoint or well screen, or suction leak.

Its a disposable filter. I'm not cleaning it as part of my too cheap to buy new issues its just been a way to determine if its filter issues or something else.

Maybe 16 years is a good run for that 3/4 hp craftsman pump for a family of four.

 

[TJ.]

If your cut-in is now 35, set your air precharge to 30 psi. If the precharge is set too high, you will get a stutter in the water pressure when the pump turns on before the jet pump is delivering pressure.

If your pump struggles to get to 55, I think you would be better to set your pressure switch to 30/50, and then use a 25 psi air precharge.

The tank came preset to 38 so I was just trying to get it back to that.

Just to confirm, If I air it down to 25, that wont be a problem even though preset from factory was 38?

 

[Reach4]

38 is right for the precharge of a submersible pump and 40/60 pressure switch -- 2 psi below cut-in.
35 is close to right for the precharge of a jet pump and 40/60 pressure switch -- 5 psi below cut-in. It takes time for the jet pump to develop pressure, so the pressure tank supplies the water during the lag.

If you are running 30/50, a common choice, then it is handy to only have to release air during install, rather than having to add air. With 30/50, letting air out to 25 is usually good. If you want to keep it at 26 or 27, and don't get a noticeable stutter in pressure during the pump start, that is OK. If the air precharge is a little higher than optimum, no damage occurs. Just the potential short pressure dip.

Setting the pressures switch to close to the max the pump can do, risks having the pump run continuously if some factors change. I don't know what margin is reasonable, but 5 psi seems good. How about 4? Maybe fine. You want to be able to have changes due to the items LLigetfa listed in #5 as well as pump degradation.

If you find 30/50 not good on the first floor, then you may be getting too much pressure drop through your filter or other things. An extra 5 psi is good if you have a second story shower. A garden hose thread pressure gauge is good to check drops. A laundry tub connection or the drain on the water heater are good places to connect a gauge to measure the pressure drop after the filter and softener.

That slime filter picture is very interesting. My first thought was leaves, but you would have been able to identify that. Then I wondered if it was a growth that sloughed off in little sheets, and the different colors were due to different ages of growth. Sanitizing sand point wells, or other small diameter suction wells, may not be practical.

 

[TJ.]

As pump was running and not getting very far past about 51-52, I turned the large spring back to shut off sooner. Pump shuts off so give it some time and after some water demand pump was running again and was again around 50 and not moving past that to shut off. Lightly touched the contact mechanism on pressure switch and contacts released. Even after cleaning them with some emery paper......Contacts have worn down but all are still round, not burnt or pitted. Maybe a pic.....

 

[Reach4]

Pump shuts off so give it some time and after some water demand pump was running again and was again around 50 and not moving past that to shut off

I would bring that down to about 36 or 37 on the release without touching. About 3.5 turns for a 10 psi change.

It would be nice if you had a combination gauge on the intake line that could measure the suction or pressure. That could tell you if the problem is the well not delivering, or the pump not sucking strongly. A small vacuum leak would also present as weaker suction, but then you would have seen some air in your water.

 

[TJ.]

Ok, I am going to try that Reach4. Air down the tank and go ahead and get a 30/50 switch. We're on a ranch. One shower /toilet at far end of house.

One thing I'm able to do is cut off the ball valve top left in one of the setup pics and then cut on another ball valve on the right to be able to run off our outside well pump. That's also handy for priming the pump in the garage/house. I always felt like I was going to electrocute myself trying to pour water in the pump and having it blow back all over me and the pump.....with that outside pump, its as easy as turning the valve letting it fill up the pump and plug it in.

Thanks for all the help everyone. I've been a lurker for a couple of years. The more I've read off this site I realize how much I dont know.

 

[Reach4]

Ok, I am going to try that Reach4. Air down the tank and go ahead and get a 30/50 switch. We're on a ranch. One shower /toilet at far end of house.

Current 40/60 switch may turn down enough.

On the other hand, if you have lost confidence in your switch, then a new one makes sense.

 

[Valveman]

You can have as much pressure as you want. You can make it like a car wash in the shower if you want. You just need a pump capable of supplying the pressure you need. I am guessing that pump maxes out at 55 PSI or so. What is the pump model and we can look it up?

 

[TJ.]

You can have as much pressure as you want. You can make it like a car wash in the shower if you want. You just need a pump capable of supplying the pressure you need. I am guessing that pump maxes out at 55 PSI or so. What is the pump model and we can look it up?

Sears owners manual for pump, arrow is pointing to my model number

 

[Valveman]

That pump will barely do 40/60. If you want more pressure look at the J5SH or the J15S Goulds, or even a multi-stage booster like the Goulds GBK series.

 

[TJ.]

just compared the Goulds J7S which is 3/4 hp and looks much better on the pump performance gpm grid when compared to mine. And I would assume parts availability would more likely to exist 10 -15 years from now.

 

[Valveman]

The J7S has a max pressure of 70, where the J5SH and J15S are 80+. Still better than what you have, but you will need the 80 PSI max to do a 50/70 pressure switch.

 

[TJ.]

The J7S has a max pressure of 70, where the J5SH and J15S are 80+. Still better than what you have, but you will need the 80 PSI max to do a 50/70 pressure switch.

Is 50 -70 pressure switch what a family of four would need to have that car wash style shower or is that the norm? So the 1/2 hp pump vs the 3/4 hp pump has better pressure at more run time to get that or is the 3/4 hp going to be a bigger electrical draw?

 

[LLigetfa]

40/60 is the norm. 50/70 is a "nice to have" and will give you 65 PSI of constant pressure with a CSV.

 

[TJ.]

Right now, I've knocked things down to be 30/50 with the pump and I can say its acting better from a soap removing shower standpoint. The pressure switch seems to have taken the adjustments I made and is cutting on and off according to the new gauge at 30/50. I'm hoping things will continue this way but still would like to get a well guy to maybe assess our setup and see if what we are getting on the filters is a sign of an impending problem.