Another wax ring question, but more philosophical

[ShelzMike]

Well, maybe not philosophical per se, but not just another "which is better" post.

So, if the general consensus is that the reinforced rings are not as good as the good old less than $2 standard rings, why is it that there are so many reinforced rings at the blues, oranges, and green big boxes? Perhaps the clear answer is easy - most regular DIYers and home owners see the word reinforced and think that has got to be better, right? Also, of course, from the manufacturer standpoint, they are significantly more expensive when compared to the standard wax rings, with probably not much more production cost. So it behooves them to market it more heavily (as well as the store).

Speaking of marketing, ironically wax rings demonstrate the concept extraordinarily well. I went in today and needed a basic wax ring. Initially, I couldn't find it! There was jumbo reinforced wax ring, regular reinforced wax rings, some other wax ring I can't remember the name of. These all had colorful packaging with marketing mumbo all over it. These covered the entire section where they were at. Massive quantities and multiple facing rows of each. I thought, do they seriously not have any regular wax rings?

Then I saw it. Sitting all alone, only one product facing placement wide, all the way to the bottom left in it's very plain black and white box. From a marketing standpoint, it looks like a generic version of a store brand of something which instinctively our brains (bc of a lifetime of marketing) think must be a low quality product.

Anyhow, I have actually never used a wax ring before. I have always opted for the non wax alternatives and they have worked well if I'm being honest; however, the last one I pulled during this remodel was only in place for about a week as I knew I was going to be pulling it back up soon. In as little as that week, it was quite gross looking and the foam portion was dirty and soaked.

All of y'all have moved me over to the wax side with my final toilet setting for this remodel. I think I should be fine as my flange is level and sitting directly on top of the finished tile. Strangely, I read time and time again here to put the ring on the flange but Oateys instructions say to put it on the toilet. I plan on putting on the flange as that makes the most sense to me.

Anyhow, just found my observations interesting and thought I'd share my thoughts. Take it or leave it.

Mike

 

[Terry]

Plumbers put the wax rings on the flange because you don't want them dropping off the bowl haphazardly in the wrong spot as you're moving the bowl into position for the set.
Reinforced rings are normally used on a wall outlet, though any position is fine too.
If I were to be fancy, I could carry the three main ones. Regular, horn wax and extra deep horn wax. I carry regular and horn wax and depending on the situation, those two work fine. If I need something thicker, I drop a regular with a horn wax on top. Sometime the flange only works with a regular wax because the horn will prevent the bowl from dropping to the floor and it rocks.

I set the bowl down without wax first to see if it needs shimming and if so, I place shims down.
Then I lift the bowl back up, drop the wax(s) and set the bowl down for good.

I don't often have a need for a wall mount installation. For wall hung I'm using Neopreme and floor mount wall outlet, then I pick up the reinforced.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

I only use regular wax rings. Placed on the flange first to ensure zero chance of misalignment.

I think I posed the question as to the actual function of the horn on this page but have never received a satisfactory reply. The time I found a horned wax ring that had deformed in the flange and created a blockage was the last straw. Plain old wax ring every time.

We have been installing a Lot of rear discharge toilets lately for some reason. Lots of attic remodels where going over the joists is the way to go. Neoprene only on those.

There is One exception where I would use a neoprene gasket on a floor mounted toilet. I've run into several bathrooms where the infloor heat was too close or too hot and was melting the wax. Fortunately that first time it just leaked sewer gases.

 

[Sarg]

This unit from Danco will be my choice. Under $10. with wax at the bottom and rubber on top.

 

[DIYorBust]

This unit from Danco will be my choice. Under $10. with wax at the bottom and rubber on top.View attachment 67885

Will this work in all the situations terry mentioned?

 

[Plumber69]

I only use regular wax rings. Placed on the flange first to ensure zero chance of misalignment.

I think I posed the question as to the actual function of the horn on this page but have never received a satisfactory reply. The time I found a horned wax ring that had deformed in the flange and created a blockage was the last straw. Plain old wax ring every time.

We have been installing a Lot of rear discharge toilets lately for some reason. Lots of attic remodels where going over the joists is the way to go. Neoprene only on those.

There is One exception where I would use a neoprene gasket on a floor mounted toilet. I've run into several bathrooms where the infloor heat was too close or too hot and was melting the wax. Fortunately that first time it just leaked sewer gases.

I too have come across deformed horned wax rings. I try to stay away from them

 

[Terry]

I too have come across deformed horned wax rings. I try to stay away from them

Once, and it was blocking the drain. I'm guessing that they put the wax ring on the bowl and it dropped off before the flooring guy set the bowl down.
I have been installing wax rings with horns when the flange has bee lower than the floor since 1973. I have installed maybe thousands that way, but yes, I came after a flooring guy install one time in that many years.
When the flange is lower than the finished flooring, my go to is drop a regular wax ring down and then a wax with horn over that. The way it was explained to me back in dinosaur days was that the horned helped to prevent the wax from blocking the drain. I've never had to go back on my thousands of installs, so I'm saying I'm that good.

 

[DIYorBust]

I wasn't around in the dinosaur days, but I swapped out an American standard antiquity toilet for a promenade recently. The American Standard flushed poorly and clogged often, and the house had another one that performed better. When I pulled it, wax was everywhere. After cleaning it up, not a fun task, I set the new toilet on a single wax ring and it flushes perfectly. The plunger now lives in the garage. Now based on what saw, the prior setup was a wax ring with a horn, plus a second ring. But it looked to me like the horn reduces the passageway and should be avoided if not absolutely needed, AND if need, should be competently installed.

 

[Terry]

The American Standard Antiquity was one of the worst toilets ever made. It wasn't the wax.

The outlet of most bowls is 2" dropping into a 3" drain.
The horn on a wax ring is also 3". No problem at all. But then I've installed thousands of toilets, so I'm going to know when I'm pulling out a toilet whether it should have been tossed or installed. 'The Antiquity was a poor flushing toilet no matter what.

 

[DIYorBust]

Ok then. I am looking forward to swapping out the next one.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

There is One exception where I would use a neoprene gasket on a floor mounted toilet. I've run into several bathrooms where the infloor heat was too close or too hot and was melting the wax. Fortunately that first time it just leaked sewer gases.

I was recently out to fix a leak on a Toto Neorest but they sent me the wrong part.. but since it was a "leaks when flushed" call, I figured it might just be a wax ring. Sure enough the endoscope camera revealed no water coming from above the floor, so wax was likely. When I swapped it out the wax looked a little weird. Perhaps melted? Sure enough, they have a heated floor, which I measured at around 80°... So I asked Oatey about their wax rings. A 2 part question; 1 melting point.. 2 what is the point of the horn.

From Oatey Technical:
The melting point of our wax rings is 150F. The horn is something people prefer for peace of mind but it does not enhance the performance of the seal. If the toilet is set properly it will preform the same with or without a horn.

The horn is just there to make you feel better.

 

[Terry]

Here is a wax ring that must have dropped off the bowl when being set. There were so many things wrong with the leaking install that the previous plumber had done.