Another pump won't shut off question

[seszoo]

Was on a job changeing, out some electric ,home owner said his pump wouldn't shut off and could I look at it ,Submersible 130 ft down , 2 wire pump, could have been there for 40 + yrs.. ,Had a new pressure switch ,no gauge to tank with no other valves , all out going shut offs were working and when checked amperage comeing from pump was getting about 6 amps per leg , could there be a check valve not working in the pump as one thread read .Myself I don't want to be involved in the pulling of the pump as I'm not real familer to be doing it to a customers pump ..

 

[Reach4]

Was on a job changeing, out some electric ,home owner said his pump wouldn't shut off and could I look at it ,Submersible 130 ft down , 2 wire pump, could have been there for 40 + yrs.. ,Had a new pressure switch ,no gauge to tank with no other valves , all out going shut offs were working and when checked amperage comeing from pump was getting about 6 amps per leg , could there be a check valve not working in the pump as one thread read .Myself I don't want to be involved in the pulling of the pump as I'm not real familer to be doing it to a customers pump ..

You saw it, and you are not going to confuse continuous running from continual running.

So that means the problem is the pressure switch, or the pump is not developing enough pressure to turn off the pump, or there is a bad leak. Based on the 6 amps number, it is probably not a leak problem. Pressure gauge number would be key. If the house has good pressure in the plumbing, the pressure switch being turned down (ccw on the nut on the big screen) could get more life out of the pump.

This is not a check valve problem.

Clearly he needs a gauge, but a garden hose thread gauge is cheap and easy and available in a hardware store.

 

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[seszoo]

You saw it, and you are not going to confuse continuous running from continual running.

So that means the problem is the pressure switch, or the pump is not developing enough pressure to turn off the pump, or there is a bad leak. Based on the 6 amps number, it is probably not a leak problem. Pressure gauge number would be key. If the house has good pressure in the plumbing, the pressure switch being turned down (ccw on the nut on the big screen) could get more life out of the pump.

This is not a check valve problem.

Clearly he needs a gauge, but a garden hose thread gauge is cheap and easy and available in a hardware store.

Thanks , Old residential well pumps aren't my expertice and I'll pass along the gauge needed .. to him , the pump runs smooth and pressure to the house taps is pretty good , it just won't shut off , If it was with the pump and he doesn't want to pull it , was thinking of suggesting a double pole switch ,so they could shut it off when not useing , But that seems like a band-aid to me . Thanks again for the answer

 

[Reach4]

Thanks , Old residential well pumps aren't my expertice and I'll pass along the gauge needed .. to him , the pump runs smooth and pressure to the house taps is pretty good , it just won't shut off , If it was with the pump and he doesn't want to pull it , was thinking of suggesting a double pole switch ,so they could shut it off when not useing , But that seems like a band-aid to me . Thanks again for the answer

I have a switch, and if he doesn't he could use the breaker for now.

I think I would advise he turn the range nut (on the big spring) CCW until the pump shuts off (and maybe one more turn) until he can get things looked at more completely. I am not a pro.

Turn the range nut clockwise to increase the cut-in pressure and
counter-clockwise to lower the cut-in pressure. Three and a half
revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi.
​

He should also re-adjust the air precharge on the pressure tank eventually, but it is OK to have the precharge set high. The only problem is that he could see a momentary drop in pressure when the pump kicks on. But it is sure better than having the pump run continuously.

 

[LLigetfa]

You saw it, and you are not going to confuse continuous running from continual running.

I did not see such evidence. All the OP said it never shuts off. Maybe you can clarify what is continuous versus continual. A bad checkvalve would cause the pump to turn off, drain back, turn on, fill, turn off, drain back, repeatedly.

I don't know how you can conclude the 6 amps draw rules out a leak. How? A pump runs on a curve and at the right of the curve, the GPM falls off and so too might the amps. A small leak could match the GPM on the right of the curve and the pump never reach cutout. I had a former boss that had that problem. He fought with the electric company for many months about his high electric bills caused by the pump running non-stop. It was only when the leak got so much worse that the water pressure dropped that he turned his attention to the pump.

 

[Reach4]

I did not see such evidence. All the OP said it never shuts off. Maybe you can clarify what is continuous versus continual.

Running for 10 seconds every 2o seconds would be continual.

A small leak would not make the pump run continuously.

I said "probably", and I feel I would bet.

 

[LLigetfa]

A small leak would not make the pump run continuously.

I guess I don't share your opinion on what a small leak is. Obviously were not talking about a drip or dribble.

Did you not read what I wrote about my former boss? His pump ran constantly. It could not reach the cutoff pressure due to it running on the right of the curve and the leak being small enough that the pressure was near but just short of cutoff. It was only when the leak got big that the pressure dropped below cut-in.

 

[Reach4]

I guess I don't share your opinion on what a small leak is.

I agree. To me, 5 gpm would not be a small leak.

 

[LLigetfa]

I agree. To me, 5 gpm would not be a small leak.

How did you surmise it would be 5 GPM leak? If it was a 5 GPM pump to start with and it was on the far right of the curve, it could be putting out way less than 5 GPM. OP did not say what the pump specs are or what the cutout pressure is set to on the new switch. For all we know, the pump could be almost deadheading and a 1 GPM leak could keep it from self destructing.

 

[Reach4]

Did you not read what I wrote about my former boss? His pump ran constantly. It could not reach the cutoff pressure due to it running on the right of the curve and the leak being small enough that the pressure was near but just short of cutoff. It was only when the leak got big that the pressure dropped below cut-in.

It could be. Do you think the odds of that are more than 33%?

A test for that would be to cut off the water to the house, and turn off the pump. If the pressure drops to zero, there is a leak before the house. If he turns on the water to the house, and only then the pressure drops, there is a big leak after the house valve. But how does he check for pressure with no pressure gauge? He drives to the farm store or the True Value and buys one.

What if he has an above ground check valve? That would hide a leak in the well. Dang.

We can agree that he should crank his pressure switch range nut CCW to try to reduce the pressure settings, and continue to diagnose and fix even if that works around the problem for a while.

 

[LLigetfa]

I'm kind of finding the "no pressure gauge" to be a lame excuse. As you say, they are readily available at any hardware store and even if they didn't want to turn off and drain the system to install a replacement, they can place one of those garden hose fitting types onto any convenient spot such as a draincock or sillcock to get a reading.

Decades ago I was working on a pipeline construction job delivering fuel in an old Kenworth. Those old trucks would shake the needle on the oil pressure gauge so much they would fatigue and break off. One day the mechanic asked what the oil pressure readout was and flipped out when he found out there was no needle. It's a lot easier to change the gauge on a water pump than a Kenworth truck's oil pressure gauge.