Another kitchen sink backing up and draining slowly thread

[JMak00]

But, of course, mine is unique...

TL/DR - Kitchen drains slowly; Section of cast iron that goes into slab under home is filled with gunk. Get a plumber to power snake/jet? Or try Bio-Clean first for a week to see if there's improvement?

Split-level home with a crawlspace under the kitchen and front entryway. Kitchen sink drains into a single pvc pipe that connects to the laundry drain at a t where the drain pipe then is cast iron leading to the back wall of the crawlspace and I presume under or through the slab for the lower-level of the home.

I can do dishes for about 15-20 minutes and then water backs all the up to the the sink. Will drain very slowly, but drain. Ran a load of laundry and one first rinse cycle, backed up and out the washer overflow.

Multiple attempts at Drano and boiling water flush as well as vinegar and baker soda mix with no improvement.

Several months ago I took out the 20ft of cast iron piping and power washed the gunk out of it. Nice and clean when I put it back in. The part I could not get was the section of pipe that goes into the wall. Put it back together and no leaks and water flowed fine...until this week.

Today I went back into the crawlspace and took apart the cast iron thinking I'd clean it, again, but the sections I removed before are still clean...the piece that is sticking out of the wall is all gunked up, though. My hand-held snake could push into and through that section but couldn't get it past about 8'. Just not stiff enough to push through.

So, took a long rod and started shoving it through the gunk and pulling out what I could and put it all back together...But, I had leaks (doesn't help that I stripped two bands - one on two separate couplings ) and as I let water in to test for leaks I could hear the water backing up inside the pipe.

So...I think it's time to get a plumber out here to snake that section of pipe that goes into the slab. I was able to pull out a lot of gelontinous gunk (and therein saw minced up onions and other food particles so a new disposable is likely needed) going about 3-4 ft in, but, I think when I ran cold water down the drain to test for leaks all that gunk solidified or least balled up, again stopping up the drain.

Now, I did have a local drain cleaning service come out yesterday to inspect and the best they would do for me was give me quotes for re-piping...dafuq? When I asked about snaking the pipe or jetting it, the service dude said he was concerned about damaging the cast iron. Does that sound right?

Lastly, I did add 3 pints of water and 3 scoops of bio-clean into the drain at the sink (3 pints because it's such a long run to where the stoppage is). I figure I'd try that for a few days and see what happens...

Approach:
Use bio-clean for 3 days to see if there's any change to drainage.
Contact multiple local plumbers to inquire about power-snaking the section of pipe going to the wall.
Starting planning to replace the sections of cast iron in the crawlspace with PVC.

The section of pipe that cost into the wall is also cast and it goes into a much wider length of cast that's in the wall. In other words, it looks like someone had foregone ripping out the original section of cast iron that goes into the wall and instead shoved a 2" section right through it. Weird stuff.

 

[DIYorBust]

I'm not sure I understand your piping situation, a picture might help. But I've cleared many such clogs with this tool I got at home depot:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/RYOBI-18-Volt-ONE-Drain-Auger-Tool-Only-P4001/206405601

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JMak00]

Some pics if it might help generate some discussion or ideas...

Drain pipe from kitchen sink into crawlspace (Black plastic stuff)


Washer drain connecting to kitchen drain Y and we transition from plastic to cast iron. Black plastic from washer down into crawlspace. Plastic connected to cast iron via rubbed coupling and two metal bands.


End of this kitchen-washer run that leads to the wall and, I think, into the slab or under the slab. That connection you see is the point to which I previously cleaned the upstream pipes and the point at which currently the pipe in clogged up. I'm wondering if it is where myself or someone else should be snaking?


Close-up of where this drain line enters the wall and where it appears someone inserted a smaller line into a prior larger line

 

[JMak00]

UPDATE - so the metal pipe in the crawlspace is not cast iron, it is galvanized. Hence, the company's caution in snaking the pipe. I've inspected the that I could remove and despite the corrosion, the pipe doesn't appear to have thinned out all that much and there are no exterior cracks or other signs of fragility. But, these are the eyes of a homeowner and not a drain specialist or plumber.

I called the company back and talked to their drain manager who indicated that he trains his techs to survey the piping and when they see galvanized to very cautious and recommend replacement rather than risking damaging the galvanized pipe. This all sounds reasonable, so I have no basis to question. The drain manager indicated that if I really did want the pipe to be snaked that he'd send another tech to come out and do it and charge me no fee for the return call out.

Is the issue with galvanized a yes-no proposition, in other words, if galvanized, then no snaking? Or do some of you professionals or DIY'ers inspect the galvanized looking for signs that snaking would pose a real risk to the integrity of the pipe before deciding whether to snake or not?

 

[Terry]

If it were me and that was that open in the crawl space, I would be tempted to replace the steel pipes with something new. Either ABS, PVC, or cast iron.

I've pulled some kitchen lines that were heavy with grease build up in crawls.

 

[DIYorBust]

How quickly does the sink back up, is it after 5 seconds or more like 30 seconds? My guess is you have a point in the drain, my first suspicion is that elbow in the picture, where rust has accumulated and blocked the pipe. If you replace that one fitting, you may be back in business. I had this happen once, there was a clean out but I couldn't open it. My snake was no match for the rust and the head broke off. But when I replaced that fitting, the rest of the galvanized was fine. If your going to cut the galvanized, perhaps you may replace a longer section, since it's not too much added work.

 

[DIYorBust]

If I had to do the job again, I think I would buy something like this, as it wasn't fun to cut the pipe in the crawlspace with a power saw. That was the most difficult part of the job.

Model 2-A Adjustable Heavy-Duty Pipe Cutter https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-...stable-Heavy-Duty-Pipe-Cutter-32820/100001470

 

[Reach4]

This all sounds reasonable, so I have no basis to question. The drain manager indicated that if I really did want the pipe to be snaked that he'd send another tech to come out and do it and charge me no fee for the return call out.

Sounds reasonable to me too.

I suggest you get one or more 5 gallon buckets. Let the drain sit overnight so that the pipes can drain out. Then empty a bucket into the kitchen sink, until there is a backup. Identify how full the bucket is when the backup starts. If you empty the bucket, as soon as practical, add another bucket. From the info, we can estimate, pretty well, how much water you added. If you could identify when the water starts backing up into the disposal, instead of the sink, that would be better.

Tell us what size pipe you have (1-1/2 ID, or 2 inch). I think you already said you have a disposal.

Anyway, the point is to estimate how far down the path the blockage is.

Also consider taking a level down into the crawlspace, and see if there is any belly/sag in the drains. Ideally, the whole length will keep a slope of at least 1/4 inch per foot.

 

[JMak00]

If it were me and that was that open in the crawl space, I would be tempted to replace the steel pipes with something new. Either ABS, PVC, or cast iron.

I've pulled some kitchen lines that were heavy with grease build up in crawls.

Thanks, Terry. I want to replace that galvanized, but the issue for me is that piece that goes into the wall. I've got one quote to re-pipe that goes over $2k and that's just not int he cards right now. I think I could handle the pipe replacement right up until that point, but that piece sticking out the wall, that's the real bear here.

 

[JMak00]

How quickly does the sink back up, is it after 5 seconds or more like 30 seconds? My guess is you have a point in the drain, my first suspicion is that elbow in the picture, where rust has accumulated and blocked the pipe. If you replace that one fitting, you may be back in business. I had this happen once, there was a clean out but I couldn't open it. My snake was no match for the rust and the head broke off. But when I replaced that fitting, the rest of the galvanized was fine. If your going to cut the galvanized, perhaps you may replace a longer section, since it's not too much added work.

It takes about several minutes of running the faucet at the sink to back up, i.e., the clog is way downstream. I've found where the clog is at. In the 3rd picture above, there's a coupling there. The clog is in the pipe on the right that goes into the wall. Per my 1st above, I tried sticking a rod in there to break it up, tried a hand snake to break it up, but it both cases, I wasn't able to get very deep into the pipe. The piping upstream is really clean since I took it apart about a year ago and power washed it.

EDIT - I've added a pic to the reply to Terry just above. In it, you'll see where I;ve indicated that the clogging is (in red).

 

[JMak00]

Sounds reasonable to me too.

I suggest you get one or more 5 gallon buckets. Let the drain sit overnight so that the pipes can drain out. Then empty a bucket into the kitchen sink, until there is a backup. Identify how full the bucket is when the backup starts. If you empty the bucket, as soon as practical, add another bucket. From the info, we can estimate, pretty well, how much water you added. If you could identify when the water starts backing up into the disposal, instead of the sink, that would be better.

Tell us what size pipe you have (1-1/2 ID, or 2 inch). I think you already said you have a disposal.

Anyway, the point is to estimate how far down the path the blockage is.

Also consider taking a level down into the crawlspace, and see if there is any belly/sag in the drains. Ideally, the whole length will keep a slope of at least 1/4 inch per foot.

It's 2" pipe down there all the way.

In the third picture above, you'll notice a coupling there. The clogging starts right there and continues deeper as the pipe transitions into the wall....

EDIT - In my reply to Terry just above I've added a new photo indicating the direction of flow and where the clogging is.

 

[Reach4]

It's 2" pipe down there all the way.

In the third picture above, you'll notice a coupling there. The clogging starts right there and continues deeper as the pipe transitions into the wall....

What is on the other side of that wall, yard? Another crawl space? Under a slab? If you could access that pipe on the other side of the wall, that would make changing that out practical I think. Its warm enough to dig.

Suppose you put in a wye (with a cleanout cap) shown as K in the picture below. That could serve as a cleanout. It seems to me that you could shove a medium Brasscraft drain bladder into the wye, go past the junction, and let the tip be at about position B. Then turn on the connected water hose and try to move your clog with pressure and some vibration that the drain bladder produces. I can't guarantee the pressure won't hurt the pipe, but that seems very unlikely.

Alternatively, you could run that wye up and out the middle of rim joist at about E on the picture. That would let you run a power snake in from outdoors.

Some things are worth borrowing money for. A new car is not one of those IMO. But fixing this probably is. A bank home improvement loan is usually a decent interest rate and the interest is often tax deductible.

 

[JMak00]

Another issue I have encountered is that I stripped one screw on two of the coupling bands that are used along the drain. I got too enthusiastic trying to make sure they were tight enough to avoid leaks.

When I buy new ones, what should I get? I'm presuming I'll be sticking with the current galvanized 2", so these would be connecting galvanized-to-galvanized pipes.

How should I prep the pipes before installing the couplings? I've read about using some kind of gasket seal before installing the couplings and also to use a wire brush to clean the pipe surface before installing the new couplings.

Again, thanks!

 

[JMak00]

The house is a split-level home. The crawlspace is under the main or street-level part of the home. That wall is what separates the main level from the lower-level of the house. The pipe either goes into the lower-level slab or underneath it.

Now that I am actually thinking clearly about this...this pipe in the crawlspace enters the wall and it joins the main stack under a utility room in the lower-level of the house. And, in fact, I'm remodeling that room currently and the toilet is out... I could try my snake there to snake from the toilet pushing into the crawlspace and trying to loosen things up that way. I'd hope I'd get the right pipe though...

Since this pipe in the crawlspace connects to the main drainage for the house under this slab, replacing this specific pipe may not be an option at this time. Had it gone all the way through to the exterior of the house, I see your point and that's something I could probably handle on my own.

What is on the other side of that wall, yard? Another crawl space? Under a slab? If you could access that pipe on the other side of the wall, that would make changing that out practical I think. Its warm enough to dig.

Suppose you put in a wye (with a cleanout cap) shown as K in the picture below. That could serve as a cleanout. It seems to me that you could shove a medium Brasscraft drain bladder into the wye, go past the junction, and let the tip be at about position B. Then turn on the connected water hose and try to move your clog with pressure and some vibration that the drain bladder produces. I can't guarantee the pressure won't hurt the pipe, but that seems very unlikely.

Alternatively, you could run that wye up and out the middle of rim joist at about E on the picture. That would let you run a power snake in from outdoors.

Some things are worth borrowing money for. A new car is not one of those IMO. But fixing this probably is. A bank home improvement loan is usually a decent interest rate and the interest is often tax deductible.

 

[Reach4]

Another issue I have encountered is that I stripped one screw on two of the coupling bands that are used along the drain. I got too enthusiastic trying to make sure they were tight enough to avoid leaks.

Consider getting a torque wrench. Most of these get tightened to 5 ft-lb (60 inch-pounds).

When I buy new ones, what should I get? I'm presuming I'll be sticking with the current galvanized 2", so these would be connecting galvanized-to-galvanized pipes.

You can use Fernco P3000-22 or 3000-22 or Mission 200 for 2 inch galvanized or ABS. Mix and match. Schedule 40 galvanized and schedule 40 abs and schedule 40 pvc are all the same size.

You could consider Fernco 1056-22RC. I am not sure of the relative merits.

There are stronger ones, if you feel the need. 4 screws to tighten.

 

[JMak00]

Consider getting a torque wrench. Most of these get tightened to 5 ft-lb (60 inch-pounds).


You can use Fernco P3000-22 or 3000-22 or Mission 200 for 2 inch galvanized or ABS. Mix and match. Schedule 40 galvanized and schedule 40 abs and schedule 40 pvc are all the same size.

You could consider Fernco 1056-22RC. I am not sure of the relative merits.

There are stronger ones, if you feel the need. 4 screws to tighten.

Thanks...any reason to prep the pipe surface or use a gasket-like material before installing the coupling?

 

[Reach4]

Thanks...any reason to prep the pipe surface or use a gasket-like material before installing the coupling?

sand or file off any edge.
Put the part on the galvanized side first, since that is rougher and harder.
You can remove the band and put it back, or usually just slide it out of the way as you work the rubber part into position.

Lube with dish washing detergent solution usually.

50-50? 2 parts water to 1 part dish liquid? Not sure about what is best.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I agree with terry out with the old. if you took this apart to clean then you can replace them . It might not be in bad shape but since you are able to do it yourself. 2 inch abs aint gona break the bank get that out and just like reach 4 said put a y clean out. Galvanised shouldnt have been going under the slab portion of the house and castiron above ground it should have been the other way around. but regardless you say it is. My practice in my home and its in perfect condition less than 20 years old Is we dont dump onions, grease , potato skins down sink. I suppose you should be able to but I keep it to a minimum unless someones paying me to fix it. good luck

 

[MACPLUMB]

Fore get what the DIY posted, go to HD rent a 3/8" Electric power snake and run it though the line, It will clear the blockage, DO NOT ! worry about the Galv.
I have snaked thousands of galv. drains and have not had a problem !
MASTER DRAINMAN SINCE 1975

 

[DIYorBust]

Fore get what the DIY posted, go to HD rent a 3/8" Electric power snake and run it though the line, It will clear the blockage, DO NOT ! worry about the Galv.
I have snaked thousands of galv. drains and have not had a problem !
MASTER DRAINMAN SINCE 1975

No disagreement, a more powerful snake have might worked, I did try to snake my drain with an electric unit. I wasn't worried about the galvi being damaged, but when it came back headless, I called it a day. When I opened the pipe, the head was burried in a rust clog. However if I were the OP, I'd certainly try to snake the drain before re-piping. What do you have to lose?