An upcoming experience with a Cadet 3

[Achutch]

A few weeks ago, my next door neighbor asked me to have a look at her upstairs toilet; a Crane Galaxy, original equipment (contractor special) installed back in 1986. She said that it had become hard to flush, requiring two hands to push the lever down. The fix for that problem would have been simple. However while I was examining the flush valve, my neighbor noticed a small crack in the lower right back corner of the tank, and then when the tank was empty, we could see that the crack extended across the inner edge where the back and bottom of the tank meet.

When asked if they should buy a new toilet, I said that I would leave that decision up to them. A few days later, the right decision was made, and I was asked what I would recommend. If it were me buying a new toilet, it would be another Toto. But since their new toilet would be purchased from H.D. I strongly suggested the American-Standard Cadet 3 based on feedback from this forum plus my own limited but positive experience with it. I also told them which toilets to avoid. I won't mention those here. We all know what they are.

This morning, my neighbor called me and said that over the weekend they bought a Cadet 3 with the round bowl. I will be installing it for them on Friday. At that time I will report back with my impressions of it.

My neighbor told me today that she thinks the crack in the tank of the Galaxy has gotten bigger. To be safe, they have shut off the water supply to the toilet and are leaving the tank empty, only filling it if they need it (as with my condo, they have a half bath on the first floor).

We live in a building of 8 units; each set of 2 units is staggered a few feet from the neighboring pair. Mine the third unit in, my neighbor's, the second. As I sit at my computer, the back of my Toto would be on the other side of the wall on the left. My neighbor's cracked toilet, because their unit is staggered from mine, is to the right of my toilet but directly behind the wall from where I am typing this note. If that tank cracked open, not only would they have a flood, but my computer room would probably get wet. A scary thought for both of us happy home owners!!!

achutch

 

[Ian Gills]

Good luck with the Cadet 3. I am very pleased with mine. Tell them to keep an eye on it for a few months. The only problems I have had were with the flapper staying open in various places. This happened very rarely and unpredictably which made it tricky to spot.

If this occurs it is always a chain adjustment problem. The toilet is very sensitive to this.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Achutch]

The Cadet 3 Experience -- A Success Story

Today I removed my neighbor’s 21-year-old Crane Galaxy with the cracked tank and installed the American-Standard Cadet 3 with round bowl.

First to Ian Gills: Thank you for your response and advice about the Cadet 3’s flapper and chain. I have passed this information on to my neighbor in case we need to make an adjustment. But so far, everything looks good.

THE OLD TOILET AND THE FLOOR FLANGE:

The crack which ran along where the floor and the back wall of the tank meet appeared to have grown since we first found it a few weeks ago, and was continuing along the upper right hand corner of the tank. But, the crack was not through the porcelain and the outside surfaces showed nothing out of the ordinary.

The bowl was loose; the bolts had never been tightened down.

The flange was loose. One screw had never been installed and the three that were there were drywall screws with heads too small for the holes in the ring. I replaced them with the proper sized wood screws. The flange is now solidly attached to the floor.

THE CADET 3:

The packaging for the tank and bowl of the Cadet 3 were first rate. The bowl was so tightly packed in its box and padded with foam that took the two of us to remove the bowl from the box, one pushing and the other pulling.

The bowl is solidly built, and much heavier than the Crane bowl that I removed. There were no defects in the glaze that I could see. The bowl sat firmly on the floor without rocking. Shims were not required.

The tank was easy to install with the bolts already in place. There was a socket tool supplied to install and tighten the nuts underneath.

There is a parts list affixed to the underside of the tank lid. (My neighbor said that she likes the lid design. It’s like a tray).

Along with the required new wax ring, I used new bolts. I also removed the metal supply tube with the compression fitting and replaced it with the newer style flexible plastic hose.

The installation of the Cadet 3 was easy and flawless. The moment of truth, the First Flush was impressive with a full rinse and a big satisfied gulp! I did make a small adjustment to the Fluidmaster so that the bowl filled to the correct level. Also tested with a big wad of paper (which appeared to be Scott 1000 one ply), and just as my Toto Drake would do, the Cadet 3 swallowed it easily.

The true test will of course be actual use. But judging from my own recent experience with a Cadet 3 ADA Model, (and we won’t into detail), I’m sure this one will be an excellent performer. At any rate, my neighbor is very pleased.

I too am very pleased with what I have seen so far in the Cadet 3 and would recommend it without hesitation to anyone who might need or may be considering a new toilet.


AND WHAT BECAME OF THE OLD TOILET???

Well, today is Trash Day, and it got put out. A short while later, while our heads were turned, it disappeared and was gobbled up by the packer truck that I spied slinking away…

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

A word of warning

Even though I appreciate the price and functionality of the Cadet 3, be careful that you take this into consideration:


That toilet uses a small amount of water to flush. If you've made the move from 3.5 to 1.6 and you have cast-iron piping for drains, it's well advised that you hold down the trip lever to allow more water when doing the #2 function.

Here's the analogy:

You don't go to a restaurant and eat a 4 course dinner and order a shot glass for a beverage. The function of the toilet is great for urination and its water saving qualities but never think that when you flush a toilet that it makes it out to the septic tank or city sewer. This takes a series of repeated flushes and other uses of the drains in the house to perform the task, the slow degredation and breakdown of solids and toilet paper.

So with the money saving water usage comes a small sacrifice, knowing that you've went from a 8cyl cadillac to a 4cyl honda.

 

[Achutch]

Hi Rugged,

That’s a good point that you made. For that very reason, I would not install a 1.6 toilet in my 3-season cabin in the woods.

The 2 toilets and 1 lavatory are on a septic system. The tub, inside lavatory, and kitchen sink are on a gray water system. The pipe that runs under the building from the inside toilet is the old style 4-inch cast iron. I could see where a “ #2 “ and wads of paper could be caught in a pipe like this. Both toilets are the very old 7-gallons per flush type and provide all the water necessary to move solids to the tank. The water source is from a brook and gravity fed. I intend to keep the old style toilets at the cabin.

The building where I live contains 8 townhouse style units: 4 clusters of 2 units. Units are just over 17 feet wide. The second floor bathrooms are staggered a few feet from each other. The first floor half baths and laundry closets are on the opposite side of the condo, and because that wall is in a cluster of 2 units, my other neighbor’s half-bath and laundry are directly on the other side of the wall.

In 1986, there were 15 Crane Galaxy 3.5 gallons per flush toilets installed in the building plus 1 American-Standard Plebe in the half bath on the opposite side of mine (original owners wanted beige colored fixtures). As far as I know, there are 10 of the Galaxy toilets left.

I am the original owner of my unit and actually saw where the pipes and vents are before the drywall was installed. I also have some photos of the PVC pipes from the upstairs bathroom because some years ago, I had a leak and the ceiling had to be removed in that area so that the broken pipe could be repaired.

 

[Achutch]

Condo plumbing layout and a tour of achutch's bathrooms!!

TO ALL:

Please ignore my incomplete previous post to Rugged. I was trying to include photos within portions of the note, got frustrated, and hit the submit key by mistake. Photos will appear at the bottom of the note.


Hi Rugged,

That’s a good point that you made. For that very reason, I would not install a 1.6 toilet in my 3-season cabin in the woods.

The 2 toilets and 1 lavatory are on a septic system. The tub, inside lavatory, and kitchen sink are on a gray water system. The pipe that runs under the building from the inside toilet is the old style 4-inch cast iron. I could see where a “ #2 “ and wads of paper could be caught in a pipe like this. Both toilets are the very old 7-gallons per flush type and provide all the water necessary to move solids to the tank. The water source is from a brook and gravity fed. I intend to keep the old style toilets at the cabin.

The building where I live contains 8 townhouse style units: 4 clusters of 2 units. Units are just over 17 feet wide. The second floor bathrooms are staggered a few feet from each other. The first floor half baths and laundry closets are on the opposite side of the condo, and because that wall is in a cluster of 2 units, my other neighbor’s half-bath and laundry are directly on the other side of the wall.

In 1986, there were 15 Crane Galaxy 3.5 gallons per flush toilets installed in the building plus 1 American-Standard Plebe in the half bath on the opposite side of mine (original owners wanted beige colored fixtures). As far as I know, there are 10 of the Galaxy toilets left.

I am the original owner of my unit and actually saw where the pipes and vents are before the drywall was installed. I also have some photos of the PVC pipes from the upstairs bathroom because some years ago, I had a leak and the ceiling had to be removed in that area so that the broken pipe could be repaired.

>>> SEE PHOTO OF UPSTAIRS BATHROOM <<<

Here is a photo of my upstairs bathroom. Just inside on the left is a double door to the closet that houses the boiler and the water heater. The tub is beyond. On the opposite side of the room is the sink and toilet. My neighbor’s bathroom a few feet to the right and through the wall is identical, but mirror image to mine. The drainpipes in each unit are arranged as in the photos below.

>>> PHOTO #1 OF PIPES <<<

There is just over 5 feet of horizontal line from the toilet to where the pipe drops down through the wall, where just before it reaches the concrete slab, switches from PVC to 3-inch cast iron. The 1.5-inch pipe that enters the straight end of the Y is from the tub.

>>> PHOTO #2 OF PIPES <<<

Here you can see the main vent, the Y just behind the toilet and tub connection. The sink drain is connected to this main vent (and the sink also has its own vent).

The 1.5-inch pipe running parallel to the bathroom drains is from the boiler pan. It runs across to the outer kitchen wall, drops down and appears under the kitchen sink and drains into the kitchen sink trap, a strange setup.

In the case of these units, anything that doesn’t get carried away in one flush of my Drake or my neighbor’s Cadet 3 would have help from the tub and the sink

The half baths on the first floor on the opposite side of the unit are arranged like this:

>>> PHOTO OF HALF BATH <<<

Through the wall (left of the sink) is the washer, in my case a front loader ( LG, purchased in January of this year, a fine piece of equipment!!).

Through the wall behind the toilet are the stairs to the second floor.

You can see why I was able to install a 14-inch rough antique “Standard†toilet in this half bath. There was a huge ugly gap between the free standing toilet and the wall. The wall-hung tank corrected this problem and YES, Rugged, this one is a Cadillac!!!

I am truly enjoying this forum, have learned a lot from it, and am continuing to learn. I am not a professional, and should have been.

Thanks to all!

Matt (achutch)