An introduction and some questions about deep jet well pumps

[Brad Smith]

Howdy, my name is Brad Smith and thanks for hosting such a nice forum. I'm rather kinda sorta new to dealing with residential water issues and wells in general but I do know my way around plumbing and electrical work.

I bought this house eight years ago and I'm about to change my pump for the second time and the pump was almost new when I bought the house. The well was put in in 1954 and I'm getting a fair bit of rust. I don't want to have to continue having a truck come out to swap out my pump. The pump is now sitting at around 110 feet in a 150 foot well with a water level of about 65 feet, the water tastes great and tested perfect too. Can I get away with putting in a deep jet pump so that I can do the work myself in the future? Last time this happened it was smack in the middle of winter and it took me a month before it was even possible to get the truck back to where I live. I'd rather do a ton of maintenance myself than go through that again. I've been reading everything I can and looking for video's but there is surprisingly little out there on using these deep jet pumps.

The guy who put my last pump in is the only person local at all and he will NOT put in a deep jet well pump for me. So if I do this I plan to do it myself. First of all, can I even use a deep jet well at that depth? From what I read I don't see why not or even why he made such a fuss about it. What kind of problems should I expect to run into and are they really so much trouble that it's a big mistake to go with a jet pump? Another question, he's kind of being weird about it and I'm not sure he will even come out and pull the pump he put in if I don't have him also put in a new submersible. His truck is also broken right now and the pump is dead, so unless I can do this I'm out of water for a while. I can't pull the old one by hand, I tried last time. It kept getting hung up. I think there was a fix done on the well with a collar or sheath or whatever that is called and the submersible pump that was in there kept snagging on that and we could not pull it up any further than that.


Can I put in a jet well pump system and leave the old one in place or do I have to remove it, I think there is room? The pump itself is in my basement in it's own room, it's not outside in the weather or anything like that. Is it possible to just slip the new pipes past the old one and run it that way?

Thanks in advance for any help you guys might offer, I really appreciate it and so will my wife and kids if I can get this done, because we are out of water right now.

 

[Valveman]

Sure a deep well jet will work from that depth. But you will have two pipes and an ejector/footvalve down the well. This will be harder to install and may get caught on the obstruction in the well even worse than the submersible. Jet pumps are less efficient, requiring more horsepower to get the same water and pressure as a submersible. Suction leaks are a common problem, and hard for a homeowner to diagnose, find, and repair. I would never install a jet pump where a submersible will fit.

What you need to do is figure out what is causing the pumps to fail, and keep that from happening. Submersible pumps should last 20-30 years if installed correctly and not cycling themselves to death. Most of the time cycling on/off too much is the cause of pump failures, and that is easy to fix by using a Cycle Stop Valve. But you could also be pumping the well dry, not have cooing past the motor, or other reasons for failure.

If you use a lot of water outside, have a heat pump, or something else that is causing the pump to cycle on/off all the time, again that is easy to solve. But if you don't use a lot of water and don't think cycling is the cause of failure, doing an autopsy on the old pump is a good idea. If the thrust bearing is down, there is a lack of flow going past the motor, and may require a cooling shroud/flow inducer sleeve.

 

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[Brad Smith]

Sure a deep well jet will work from that depth. But you will have two pipes and an ejector/footvalve down the well. This will be harder to install and may get caught on the obstruction in the well even worse than the submersible. Jet pumps are less efficient, requiring more horsepower to get the same water and pressure as a submersible. Suction leaks are a common problem, and hard for a homeowner to diagnose, find, and repair. I would never install a jet pump where a submersible will fit.

What you need to do is figure out what is causing the pumps to fail, and keep that from happening. Submersible pumps should last 20-30 years if installed correctly and not cycling themselves to death. Most of the time cycling on/off too much is the cause of pump failures, and that is easy to fix by using a Cycle Stop Valve. But you could also be pumping the well dry, not have cooing past the motor, or other reasons for failure.

If you use a lot of water outside, have a heat pump, or something else that is causing the pump to cycle on/off all the time, again that is easy to solve. But if you don't use a lot of water and don't think cycling is the cause of failure, doing an autopsy on the old pump is a good idea. If the thrust bearing is down, there is a lack of flow going past the motor, and may require a cooling shroud/flow inducer sleeve.

Thanks for answering and I'll keep that in mind. So you don't think it's the well itself that could be the problem? It wasn't rapid cycling, I don't use much outside water either. I suppose I could be running the well dry although I don't ever run out or even seem to get reduced pressure.

 

[Valveman]

Inspecting the old pump is the best way to determine the cause of failure. Can't solve a problem until you know what caused it.

 

[Reach4]

I bought this house eight years ago and I'm about to change my pump for the second time and the pump was almost new when I bought the house. Stuff comes out like a geyser. The well was put in in 1954 and I'm getting a fair bit of rust. I don't want to have to continue having a truck come out to swap out my pump.

How often do you need the pump swapped?

? Another question, he's kind of being weird about it and I'm not sure he will even come out and pull the pump he put in if I don't have him also put in a new submersible. His truck is also broken right now and the pump is dead, so unless I can do this I'm out of water for a while. I can't pull the old one by hand, I tried last time. It kept getting hung up. I think there was a fix done on the well with a collar or sheath or whatever that is called and the submersible pump that was in there kept snagging on that and we could not pull it up any further than that.

There are well cleaning techniques. One would scrub the sides. Another blows accumulated sediment including loose rust out with a big towed air compressor. The compressor I saw was 275 cfm, but 175 may have been sufficient. It may have taken a while for the sediment to have built up. So a good cleaning may keep sediment down for another 40 years.

For doing your own work, a poly drop pipe would be best. It does not require a truck necessarily. Some would rig a big pulley made from a tractor wheel to help pull. A sturdy frame holds the pulley, and a truck or car can pull a rope slowly. On the other hand, you and a helper could just lift the pipe and pump hand over hand. Maybe 1 inch SIDR 160 psi poly with no safety rope or cable. Use 2 worm gear clamps on the barbs unless you get the special longer barb that can take 3 clamps.

You have what, a 4 inch ID steel casing? Consider a 3 inch (2.9 inches actually) pump. That can give a lot more space in a rusty 4 inch ID casing than a 3.9 or 3.75 inch ("4 inch") pump.

I am not a pro. I do not speak from experience.