American Standard Glenwall wall mount toilet and Yorkville review

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Terry, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    The only reason I would "retire" a Case 3000/3100 would be if it was cracked or I got tired of its color. The carrier in the wall is already a 4 bolt pattern, which only used the portion necessary for the Case.
     
  2. Te0TBP

    Te0TBP New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    New York
    I've got an American Standard Glenwall that was installed as part of a remodel a couple of years ago.

    It replaced a standard floor-mounted toilet because the location moved by a couple of feet. Rather than notch a floor joist for the waste line, I thought a wall mount would be nice. It's convenient when it comes time to mop the floor too...

    But I'm pretty unhappy with it.

    First, there's the flush performance. It's powerful, and usually takes care of solids, but any light material (paper or otherwise) floating on the surface of the water just gets tossed around on the surface, and often doesn't get flushed away on the first try.

    Next, there's the noise. It's loud, probably because of the volume of air the flushmate introduces. The noise isn't a "thump" as described earlier in the thread, but rather a huge spray/whoosh sound.

    I got an idea that maybe the pressure assist flush thing was required because of the possibly long in-wall horizontal run associated with a typical install. In my case, the only horizontal bit is the cast iron carrier. The waste line immediately turns down at about 30 degrees where it exits the cast iron. Maybe I could replace the flushmate with a normal mechanism?

    Imagine my disappointment to discover that all of the water blasted out of the power unit's large outlet flows through two dime-sized holes at the bowl entrance. Of course a gravity flush mechanism didn't work.

    So, I put it back together with new gaskets and now I have a leaky disaster.

    I've tried 3 different gaskets (every one they had at the orange store), and none will create a seal that stands up to the pressure produced by the flushmate unit.

    I've tightened the tank-to-bowl bolts until the tank makes contact with the bowl on all four "feet" (little standoffs between the tank and bowl), but the fit isn't tight enough.

    Whether a particular flush will produce a leak is unpredictable, but the leaks (when they come) sometimes produce as much as a quart of water blasting all over the walls!

    Ugh.

    Am I doing something wrong? I took the cartridge out, and adjusted it according to instructions I found online (install the cartridge until water stops flowing into the bowl, then ensure 1/8" clearance at the actuator)

    Is there a particular gasket I should be using? The one that came with the unit was a slightly oversize red one with a hex cut-out for the large nut on the flushmate unit, but the American Standard replacement part is black according to photos I've found online.

    Perhaps I can lower the flush power by reducing the amount air drawn in by the flushmate? The air is the "spring" that does most of the work, as I understand it.

    I've examined the bowl and tank and don't believe they're defective, just a stupid design. The tank-to-bowl gasket is under a tremendous amount of pressure because the huge blast of water (firing a charged flushmate without a toilet was pretty impressive) is forced through such tiny holes at the bowl inlet.
     
  3. Starwarsith88

    Starwarsith88 DIY kid who loves toilets

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Location:
    Sparta NJ
    Well first question is, where is the toilet leaking? Second of all, always remember that you will not be able to change to a gravity flush on any pressure assist toilet, that's the way the trap way is designed. But anyways, this might help you http://www.eflushmate.com/FP/product/E-205288.html and if you seem to still have issues, it could possibly be that the flushmate system is not working properly, and if that doesn't go smooth then your toilet is probably leaking somewhere. Good luck and hopefully the problem could be fixed! :)


    Sloan Flushmate.jpg lushmate 2.jpg
     
  4. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Doh!

    Why would you take apart a Flushmate-equipped toilet without doing the two seconds of research on the Internet that would have been required to find 4000 articles that explained that a pressure-assist REQUIRES a different bowl than a gravity toilet (so that the water doesn't blast all over the bathroom)? Those "dime-sized holes" are what is NECESSARY for the thing to work its best.

    Why doesn't it work? I don't know. I'm guessing you broke something.

    Of course, there are a limited number of places it can leak and a limited number of potential causes. If you have the right gaskets and you put it back together correctly and you haven't cracked the porcelain, it won't leak.

    Oh, yeah. Stop messing around with it. It is what it is. You chose this solution. In this application, you really do want the Flushmate not a gravity toilet. I'm sorry that you're finding it to be too loud, but if you want a gravity toilet then your solution is a floor flange.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  5. Te0TBP

    Te0TBP New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks very much for the replies!

    I sure wish I'd known about the difference in bowls before I started down this terrible road!

    I've conceded defeat on the noise front, am now trying to get things back where I started.

    The gasket that's currently in there is a fairly small one. The orange store had two "fluidmaster" options: one with a flange that surrounds the flushmate nut, and one without.

    The "without flange" gasket is currently installed.

    The leaks appear to be coming from in between the gasket and the flushmate outlet, suggesting that water is passing by the large threads on the flushmate.

    One possibility has occurred to me: I replaced the inside-the-tank gasket on the flushmate when I reassembled everything. I don't suspect that it is the direct cause of the leak (it doesn't hold pressure, afterall), but I wonder if my replacement inside-the-tank gasket isn't thinner than the original one. If that's the case, then perhaps I've got too much of the flushmate outlet protruding into the bowl, and that's interfering with the intended flow.

    I'm thinking of pulling the cartridge out and measuring the clearance between the bottom of the flushmate outlet and the bottom of the bowl's inlet.

    I take it that the only adjustments on the flushmate unit are the cartridge depth and the actuator height? There's nothing to adjust with the air inlet valve?

    Should I be tightening the tank bolts until the tank is making contact with the bowl (no rocking back and forth)?

    Is the Flushmate gasket linked by Starwarsith88 substantially different from stuff I'll find at the orange store? I've got an American Standard 034602-0070A (the one listed in the Glenwall replacement parts diagram) coming in the mail.

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  6. Te0TBP

    Te0TBP New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    New York
    The American Standard gasket came in today. It's the same dimensions as the other ones I've tried, but the material is quite different.

    It's much less dense, but more rigid than the other gaskets I've tried.

    If the other ones are like gummi worms, this one is like a piece of styrofoam.

    So far, so good. No leaks yet tonight.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  7. Te0TBP

    Te0TBP New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    New York
    The leak came back, but I think I figured it out this time.

    I'd been working under the bogus understanding that the tank-to-bowl gasket seals the flushmate outlet tube to the bowl.

    This was totally wrong. For one thing, the output tube is threaded. No way to establish a seal against that surface.

    The tank-to-bowl gasket actually creates a seal between the bowl and the face of the large (2.5"?) nut on the bottom of the flushmate.

    There's a path for pressure to escape through the threads, past the nut, then between the top of the nut and the bottom of the tank. That's what the paper gasket is for, and I think this was my problem all along.

    I wish I'd thought this through more completely the previous ten time I had it apart :)

    <sigh>

    Homeowners are the worst, huh?

    Thanks again.
     
  8. Te0TBP

    Te0TBP New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Location:
    New York
    Another update.

    I ordered the gasket Starwarsith88 linked above.

    It's totally different from the "correct" American Standard part. Much larger and harder than the American Standard part, or any of the ones (even "oversize" ones) available at the Orange store.

    Clearly, this is the gasket that should be used in this application.

    Also, it's not clear what constitutes a defective bowl, as have been mentioned so many times in this thread, but I think I may have one.

    I had a close look at the gasket surface on the bowl. At first glance it looks okay (no obvious cracks/voids, the enamel is in nice shape), but the shape of the gasket surface is sloppy. Around most of its circumference, the gasket surface has a stair-step profile.

    At about 3:00 (the right side), the clearly-defined stair-step is deformed. It looks more like a ramp than a stair-step. This is the side that was leaking, and it makes sense that the gasket wouldn't seal well here.
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    American Standard Glenwall

    [​IMG]

    With a TOTO Softclose in Colonial White

    [​IMG]

    We had installed these in 2008.
     
  10. gretchen

    gretchen New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2014
    Occupation:
    Ped OT
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ok, after 2 months, and two bowls, installed glenwall today. No problem with install other than needing to remove bit of tile near base where old AS and new were not quite same. Used wax ring as special order Zorn didn't fit into fixture gutter. Turned on water and ....it just keeps on running. No pressure. No flush. Slight bit of water in porcelain tank with water leakin? out center bottom of black tank. Is tank defective? I've never had pressure assist before. Should there be water in the porcelain tank?
     
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    You may need to adjust the plunger at the top of the tank. The metal bracket that pushes down the plunger needs to have some slack there. It can't be pushing down and keeping the seal from closing.
    Some water in the tank is fine.
     
  12. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Gretchen, it sounds like you're pretty handy, so there's no reason you can't replace a toilet yourself. However, I would just recommend to you, now that you have received so much good advice from this site, that you consider using Terry for things that are out of your wheelhouse, or when you really get into a jam. And buying the product from him might not be a bad gesture either. He's America's Most Trusted Plumber, in my view, and I would hire him in a second -- even to do stuff I can do myself -- if he were here in NYC rather than there in Seattle like you are.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2015
  13. WN64

    WN64 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Location:
    Naples, Florida
    Terry, Are the defect issues on the Glenwalls better now, or is it still the case that you have to go through several tanks to get them not to leak?
     
  14. melissa dively

    melissa dively New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    have circa 1966 A/S Vent Away wall hung toilets which are now needing replacement parts or just replacements. Lowes did not have the gasket between tank and bowl replacement part. An alternative was suggested but we are not able to get a complete seal on the 'make your own gasket' repair kit the house plumber suggested at Lowes. The guts of the tank were broken and we were able to replace the mechanical parts, but not the form fitting gasket.
    1: is there a place to find the specific gasket for this old model?
    2: is the current Glenwall toilet the best replacement for the Vent Away model?
    3: is this a special order through the big box home improvement stores?
     
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    They do seem to have a bit better quality control now. Lately though, I've been selling more gravity wall hung toilets like the Gerber Maxwell 20-021 in the Seattle area. I don't ship.
     
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2004
    Occupation:
    Plumber
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Here is a link for parts on the Vent-Away

    If you have a four bolts wall hung toilet, new options would be the American Standard Glenwall or the Gerber 20-021 Maxwell wall hung.
    I've been selling more of the Gerber lately.
     
Similar Threads: American Standard
Forum Title Date
Toilet Forum discussions Running American Standard toilet Apr 27, 2017
Toilet Forum discussions American Standard - Cadet Flowise Pressure-Assisted Toilet Apr 11, 2017
Toilet Forum discussions 24 Unit Toilet Purchase - Need Some Input (Toto/American Standard/Duravit/Caroma/Stealth) Feb 9, 2017
Toilet Forum discussions American Standard Champion 4 Mystery Part Jan 5, 2017
Toilet Forum discussions Best American Standard 12" Toilet for 11" Rough In Jan 2, 2017

Share This Page