All Purpose Cement for ABS to PVC

[Keith83]

I had someone fix a toilet drain pipe in my bathroom and he used Oatey All-Purpose Cement to glue ABS to PVC instead of the Oatey Transition glue. Does this need to be ripped out and redone with the Transition glue?

 

[Dj2]

A mistake, but not fatal.

1. The right thing to do is to use same kind materials, either all ABS or all PVC.

2. If you can't get connectors of the same material, you can use a solvent marked for "ABS and PVC use".

So what to do now? It's your call. I suggest talking to the "plumber" about it, then decide.

Objectively, this connection may be OK or may fail. We don't know.

I would make him change it, using brand new parts - he should have known better. My bet is that he did't have on his truck what was needed to complete the job. But that's just me.

 

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[Keith83]

dj2, thank you for your response. The guy who did the work had no idea what he was doing. He and I actually went to the hardware store and bought the parts right then and there that he said I needed. (It was a guy I knew from middle school who said he had 15 years experience which I now seriously doubt.) He literally screwed up every single thing he was supposed to fix (particle board instead of plywood for sub floor that will be tiled, gluing the toilet flange onto the sub floor itself, positioning the flange crooked so the toilet wouldn't even fit back onto it.) Suffice to say, I'm not letting him touch anything else in my house. In order to get the flange off the new PVC pipe (before I realized the wrong glue was used on the other end), I had to heat it up with a heat gun and carefully pry off the flange. I don't want to take any chances especially since I'll be tiling on top later. Would using the same method to remove the PVC from the ABS also work? The flange and pipe were both PVC whereas this will be removing PVC from ABS. I'm not sure if there's any difference in regards to removing.

 

[Jadnashua]

A properly made plastic pipe connection shouldn't release by heating. The cement is actually a solvent with dissolved extra plastic in it...the solvent melts the surface of the pipe and fitting, and then, once the solvent evaporates, they are literally one piece, welded together. While you can use a transition cement, what may be a safer solution is the more costly banded coupling. Some have a single clamp at each end, which also works, depending on the situation.

 

[Reach4]

Are you saying that you have a 3 inch ABS pipe or closet bend, and you glued a PVC closet flange to the outside? And then, after heating, you removed that PVC closet flange, and are left with a 3 inch ABS pipe or fitting sticking up, and that there is residual cement on the outside of the ABS pipe?

Normally, you would glue the flange to the pipe after the file was in place.

 

[Plumber69]

I had someone fix a toilet drain pipe in my bathroom and he used Oatey All-Purpose Cement to glue ABS to PVC instead of the Oatey Transition glue. Does this need to be ripped out and redone with the Transition glue?

Here this is right off there site...
Can you use All Purpose Cement when assembling PVC and ABS pipe?

No. Oatey has NSF approved cement for this application called ABS to PVC Transition Green Cement. This transition cement is for applications where the interior building drain and the exterior sewer drain are made of dissimilar plastics, generally ABS and PVC. Check with your local building officials before attempting this application to insure it is approved in your municipality.

 

[Plumber69]

A properly made plastic pipe connection shouldn't release by heating. The cement is actually a solvent with dissolved extra plastic in it...the solvent melts the surface of the pipe and fitting, and then, once the solvent evaporates, they are literally one piece, welded together. While you can use a transition cement, what may be a safer solution is the more costly banded coupling. Some have a single clamp at each end, which also works, depending on the situation.View attachment 41634

You can't get a PVC to abs banded clamp like that in my town. I usually glue the PVC adapter to the PVC to bring it the same size as abs

 

[Jadnashua]

The difference in OD on PVC and ABS at a 3" pipe is all of 0.007"...IOW, a banded coupling will work just fine.

 

[Keith83]

Plumber69, I understand what the official statement is. I'm more wanting to know whether it will hold in reality (sometimes official and reality are two different things).

Reach4, I used a heat gun to remove a PVC flange from a PVC pipe. I believe it was actually this site where I found out how to do that. Worked perfectly! However, This new bend + pipe + flange is connected to an ABS system. That's where I'm concerned now. I want to know whether I should just leave it as is or if it would be worth it to somehow remove the new PVC pieces from the old ABS.

jadnashua, I've seen those coupling bands but my issue is the pipes are already connected and it's a pain in the ass to remove with a heat gun (I swear it works). Would putting a clamp over the connection do anything for me? Local handymen tell me it will be fine but they're not pros so I'm a little hesitant to just accept it and move on unless I'm completely sure it won't leak.

 

[Reach4]

However, This new bend + pipe + flange is connected to an ABS system. That's where I'm concerned now. I want to know whether I should just leave it as is or if it would be worth it to somehow remove the new PVC pieces from the old ABS.

I am not a plumber, and I have no similar experience.

I think I would consider an experiment. Duplicate the joint that you are worried about, and see what it takes to fail. Maybe under-glue for a worse-case test.

When I had a PVC+steel joint in a lavatory drain path, I wrapped it with self-fusing silicone tape topped off with another shrinking tape. I can keep a watch on that joint. If you have easy-enough access, you could consider such an action as a redundant seal.

 

[Keith83]

I am not a plumber, and I have no similar experience.

I think I would consider an experiment. Duplicate the joint that you are worried about, and see what it takes to fail. Maybe under-glue for a worse-case test.

When I had a PVC+steel joint in a lavatory drain path, I wrapped it with self-fusing silicone tape topped off with another shrinking tape. I can keep a watch on that joint. If you have easy-enough access, you could consider such an action as a redundant seal.

That's a good idea! I might give that route a go and see how confident I am with it. I worry about leakage over time but now I'm wondering if I surround the lip with JB Plastic weld and put a metal clamp over the connection it might eliminate any chance of separation in the future. The area in question will be tiled over in the next month, but I can still access the piping from below. I'd just have to rip out some ceiling.

 

[Jadnashua]

Any short-term experiment you perform may not show up any long-term results. Its really hard to prevent leaks from the outside...much easier from the inside. Since you have access, why worry about it and just do it right.

 

[Keith83]

Any short-term experiment you perform may not show up any long-term results. Its really hard to prevent leaks from the outside...much easier from the inside. Since you have access, why worry about it and just do it right.

I agree! That's what I'm trying to do. I just want to go about it the right way. Currently the PVC is cemented to the ABS, so should I go ahead and attempt to separate the pipes?

 

[Reach4]

I'm wondering if I surround the lip with JB Plastic weld and put a metal clamp over the connection it might eliminate any chance of separation in the future.

I would definitely test that before implementing. I was recently disappointed in regular JB Weld being able to adhere to galvanized steel. I then tried Lictite Clear Silicone waterproof sealant (aquarium safe). As it turned out, it did not matter, because there was another leak in a downstream galvanized drainpipe that was not at a fitting, and it was not in a horizontal piece. I was a bit shocked to find that. It turns out that the fissure was just above a partial block. So that explains it.

 

[Jadnashua]

Can you not find ABS bits, then you don't need to transition! As I said earlier, a code compliant way to transition is to use a banded coupler if you must keep the ABS.

The solvent used for ABS and PVC is nearly the same, but the two don't really mix well, so while it may have melted the surface of each, they may not be well bonded. TO sleep better, just redo it with either all one plastic, or use an approved transition method. It might work just fine, but why take the risk? The cost to redo it isn't great. If you had lots of money already sunk in, it might be worth it to try, but not while you still have fairly easy access and it's not going to break the bank.

 

[Keith83]

Can you not find ABS bits, then you don't need to transition! As I said earlier, a code compliant way to transition is to use a banded coupler if you must keep the ABS.

The solvent used for ABS and PVC is nearly the same, but the two don't really mix well, so while it may have melted the surface of each, they may not be well bonded. TO sleep better, just redo it with either all one plastic, or use an approved transition method. It might work just fine, but why take the risk? The cost to redo it isn't great. If you had lots of money already sunk in, it might be worth it to try, but not while you still have fairly easy access and it's not going to break the bank.

The local Lowe's had a whole aisle of PVC, but not much ABS. I'm sure I can find it elsewhere though. I just checked and the guy who put the new pieces on used a 90 degree elbow to connect the vertical portion from the flange to the rest of the horizontal piping rather than a 90 degree long sweep so it looks like that will have to be replaced anyway. I'm pretty new at home remodeling, but so far the majority of my issues have come from just fixing what the supposed "pro" screwed up. It ain't easy to find good people unless you're ready to shell out tens of thousands!

 

[Reach4]

It ain't easy to find good people unless you're ready to shell out tens of thousands!

It might help if you could wait for the guy who is booked up for a week or so.

 

[Keith83]

It might help if you could wait for the guy who is booked up for a week or so.

Wouldn't be a bad idea if I knew a guy! (I actually was referred a plumber who did good work but he flaked out on me when it came time to set a date for him to come by.) From my experience, in far more than just home remodeling, if you need something done you're way better off doing thorough research and then just doing it yourself.

 

[Jadnashua]

Some people literally call someone to screw in a new light bulb...one neighbor was like that. Me, I've torn apart and done lots of things, but sometimes, a pro can get it done a lot quicker, and you don't have to buy tools, or do it over if you mess up. I enjoy the challenge, but as I get older, that joy doesn't overcome my back complaining...it just depends. Good luck.

 

[Kreemoweet]

I would never trust any joint made with that "universal pipe cement" stuff, whether it was used on dissimilar plastics or not.
I can well believe that a joint made up with that could be taken apart using heat. I personally have yanked apart many such joints made
by uninstructed persons, with no heat being necessary, and between identical materials. The stuff is just no good.