Air in water system - help!? (with pic's)

[JBro]

We've struggled with air in our water lines for quite some time now. We have a well water system and ongoing problems with iron in the system as well (and associated smell in the water).
The picture shows the main plumbing of our system;

As you can see, we have an air injection venturi pulling air into the system directly from the well. The water then goes to the pressure tank, up through the pressure sensor for the well pump, then up and around through to the first stage of the iron filter with the air vent on top. This air vent is supposed to vent off excess air from the system. The system then goes on to another iron filter tank and then the water softener, water heater tank, etc.

Problems;
1. There is usually air in the system somewhere causing one of our inside water faucets (usually the one directly upstairs from the system which is in the basement) to blast out air along with water once in a while. Annoying at best. This would lead me to suspect that the vent is not working properly but it seems to work fine. In fact there is another similar vent just before the water softener which works but never vents air.
2. As mentioned, we often - I'd say usually - have problems with our water smelling 'earthy'. I've 'shocked' the well several times with bleach and that helps for a little while (anywhere from days to months) and then the smell comes back. I don't know if this is related to the air in the lines but...

Anything obvious come to mind, either from the picture above or from what I've described? I've had our plumber back many times and he doesn't seem to solve the problem. Also had a water 'specialist'. Same non-results.
We have high-iron groundwater and this system is supposed to take care of it.

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Gary Slusser]

I see a couple things but to be sure, I need you to take another picture from out in front of the equipment to get all of it in the picture from eye level. Get the filter and softener in one too.

Until then, how old is the equipment?

How much iron is in the water?

How much hardness?

Any snotty slimy clear to black stuff in the toilet tanks at and/or below the water line?

How did the installation of the equipment?

That brass check valve, where does the water to the right of it go?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JBro]

Full system pic;

Answers -
I don't recall exactly how hard or how much iron is in the untreated water. We have an irrigation system for the yard and it is unfiltered due to capacity of the filter system. Our (normally white) siding is orange if we use the system around the house, as is our concrete where the system hits it.
The toilet bowls are stained a little orange but not too bad.
There is no slimy clear or black stuff in the toilet tanks.
The house is 7 years old and so is the system.
A local plumber did the installation. We are in a fairly small town and I won't pass judgment on how good he is.
to the right of the brass checkvalve (if you are referring to the lower part of the system?) the water goes to the irrigation system which, as mentioned, is seldom used.

Thanks.

Note - we also have a recirculation pump/return piping for our hot water plumbing as our house is fairly wide and the hot water tanks are at one end of the house. Don't know if this makes any difference.

 

[Gary Slusser]

All that galvanized pipe, the fittings and nipples should all be removed. It rusts internally and reduces flow as it blocks up while adding iron to the water. It is rough inside compared to plastic, and that allows the rust caused by the air injection to cling to it helping it block up sooner than plastic (sch 40 PVC).

The pressure tank should have a tank tee with the pressure switch, gauge, drain and pressure relief valve etc, installed on it instead of the present 'design'.

I don't like air injection. The plumbing from the venturi (where the air is injected) to the filter will be clogged up with rust. That reduces the flow of water to the filter. That causes inadequate backwash flow to the filter. That causes the mineral to fail. That causes dirty water and/or iron to get to the softener and that causes the softener to fail.

The check valve, the brass thing in the line above the venturi, shouldn't be there because the line it is installed in shouldn't be there. The line going up from the line the venturi is in should go to an elbow, not a tee and then to the irrigation, not into/through the check valve. If the direction on the check is toward the pressure tank raw water is by passing the venturi. If the check is toward the irrigation line, the line going up to the tee above the venturi line should be removed or have a stop valve in it. In other words, why the check valve? The venturi is small fo 1" line and the flow rate the house probably requires, that may be why there is a check valve in what looks like a by pass of the venturi.

The plumbing from the venturi going up by the switch and into the copper line rises above the inlet to the vent tank, the first one with the the brass valve on it. The air is being trapped in that line and can not be totally flushed out into the vent tank. The brass vent valve on the vent tank is something I've never seen used on an air injection system. A Honeywell float controlled vent valve is usually used. That vent valve is to allow air out of the vent tank so it can not get into the water line leaving the tank and going to the filter but...

That line from the vent tank to the filter rises above the inlet to the filter like the inlet line to the vent tank does... that traps air in the pipe. And I see a brass vent or air inlet valve on a black piece between the top of the mineral tank and the Cal Tech control valve (an Autotrol). That I've not seen before either.

He reduced 1" to 3/4" instead of using 1" heads and control valves. That is not good with air injection IMO.

The vent off tank should be drained if it has a bottom drain and if not, taken off line and cleaned out, they collect a lot of rust and you don't want the dirt to get over to the filter. Seven years is a LONG time for an air injection system filter mineral to last, so you may need to replace it but...

The system isn't working right and has not been for some time if it ever has, so I wouldn't put more money in it, I'd go to a totally different system. Like my inline erosion pellet chlorinator, special mixing/retention tank with a bottom drain followed by a correctly sized for the SFR (service flow rate) your house requires, special carbon backwashed filter.

 

[JBro]

Thanks for the comprehensive response.

I don't mind changing the whole system IF IT WILL WORK. My conclusion is we don't have anyone around here who really knows water systems. Period. So my confidence in getting someone to do a quality installation and make sure it will ultimately work is low.

The galvanized piping has been pointed out previously as - "Huh? Why did they do THAT?"

I'd rather not deliberately inject chlorine on an ongoing basis if I don't have to. Or go to a charcoal system which requires regular replacement either. But if that's what I've got to do and there are no alternatives....

Think I'll try again with a complete system revamp come spring.

Thanks again!

 

[Gary Slusser]

The chlorinator doesn't inject chlorine, a solution feeder does.

The carbon filter is an automatically backwashed type. Usually you don't replace the carbon for many years.

With a bit of practice plumbing, you should be able to do the installation yourself. It is simple A to B to C to D plumbing. I've helped/taught many people to solder or use plastic. Or hire a plumber. It will take 4+/- hours. Look me up when you're ready to something, but first you need a raw water test for pH, iron, hardness and see if there is any odor and if there is what it is. Coliform bacteria would be good too.