Air in system

[mlancaster]

Hello! My husband and I are having trouble getting our shallow well pump up and running smoothly.

Some background info:

We use a spring cistern for our water that is about 20yd below our house with a slight incline to reach us.

New 20g pressure tank was installed on 06/24. Well guy said our pump was on its last leg and would need replaced soon. It cycled on and off a lot and we would get fluctuating water pressure.

We purchased and installed the new pump ourselves last weekend. It was the same model as the old one so it was an easy swap. (Barracuda® 3/4 HP Convertible Jet Pump).

We were able to prime the pump and all seemed well but the pump seemed to lose prime/have air in it between the initial cycle and the next time it kicked on. It was making a very loud pulsing noise. After googling it, we thought maybe the foot valve was going bad and allowing air into the system. We changed it out last Sunday. We thought that solved the problem but we still get a ton of air in our lines and eventually have to go let our out of the system again. When we open the top of the priming tee, we get an initial burst of air and you can hear water trickling down from the pressure tank line. We don’t even have to fill it back up with water because once the air releases, it’s full to the top. I believe it’s holding pressure because I’ve taken photos of the gauge before and after work (10ish hrs between) and the gauge doesn’t move. We noticed a small leak on the tee between the pressure tank and pump where the line travels to the house. Could that be causing our issue?

I’ve reached out to the guy who put in the pressure tank and he’s convinced (without coming back out) that we have a leak/hole in the water line going to the spring and said we need a new one and should just put a submersible in. Wouldn’t we be dropping pressure thru the day if that was the case?

After reading any post I can on this forum (driving myself insane), I’m thinking maybe those 6 weeks hooked up to the old pump, we maybe ruined our pressure tank??

Pressure switch came attached to the new pump and is set to 20/40. Tank precharge was around 25 but we dropped it to 18 (while empty) and it’s been holding.

Sorry for the super long post, but I am at a loss after a week of troubleshooting and we don’t seem to have anyone else in our area besides the guy we’ve used before and I really want some more opinions. You all seem incredibly knowledgeable and I’m hoping you can help!

 

[LLigetfa]

Where is the pump in relation to the cistern and house? Where is the tank? How far below the water level in the cistern is the foot valve? Aside from the foot valve, is there any other check valve before the pump?

You most likely have a suction leak between the foot valve and the pump. It is possible for it to only leak on suction and not leak on pressure. If using poly pipe and barb fittings, make sure to double up on the jubilee clamps and to stagger the worm gear. If using threaded plastic fittings into the pump intake, try replacing them with metal fittings.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mlancaster]

The pump is about 60’ away from the cistern, in the basement of our house. It’s a slight incline. The cistern isn’t actually that deep so the foot valve is maybe a foot or so down. It’s always been hooked up this way for as long as I know (the house is a super old farmhouse). I don’t think there is any other check valve before the pump to my knowledge, just the shut off valve to cut the water to the pump.

I tried to upload a photo of how it’s all connected because I’m honestly not sure what type of pipe or fittings it is from looking at it, but the the photo won’t upload. I’ll keep trying so that you can see what we’re working with.

 

[Reach4]

Do you have a check valve, other than the one that is part of the foot valve?

I second the submersible pump. Use a flow inducer with it, if you go that route.

 

[mlancaster]

Do you have a check valve, other than the one that is part of the foot valve?

I second the submersible pump. Use a flow inducer with it, if you go that route.

Our cistern isn’t very deep so would a submersible even work? I’ve never actually seen our cistern until the past weekend when we had to go down there and was kind of surprised it was so small but we’ve never run out of water before.

 

[mlancaster]

Do you have a check valve, other than the one that is part of the foot valve?

I second the submersible pump. Use a flow inducer with it, if you go that route.

I think we have a check valve on the line that goes to the house after the pump/pressure tank but I’m not sure if that’s what I’m looking at or not. I can’t get any photos to upload to be able to show you all.

 

[mlancaster]

Here’s the photos of how it’s all setup

 

[Valveman]

The photos help. Looks like you have a check valve between the yellow handled ball valve and the suction of the pump, and another just on the discharge of the pump. The foot valve at the spring is the only check valve you need. Those other check valves will cause the pump to loose prime and get air in the system. Yo may still have a leak in the suction line as well, but you won't find it until you remove or gut those other check valves. Gut those check valves and put them back in as couplings and you should be good. BTW, cycling on and off is one of the major causes of check/foot valve failures.

 

[Reach4]

For a submersible with flow inducer see https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-me-pick-a-pump.78904/
Note that the bottom picture does not have a flow inducer, but it should. You could make that assembly with piece of the same 3-inch pipe.

A 1/2 HP 10 gpm pump is smaller than the pump pictured.

 

[mlancaster]

We managed to get it fixed yesterday morning and it all seems to be working ok now. We had a few small leaks on the discharge side that we fixed, and we disassembled all the connections on the pump, retreaded and put back. There’s a gasket between the injector body and pump housing that we think we had in backwards so that definitely could’ve been where our suction leak was or some of the problem at least. Thank you guys for all your advice!! I knew nothing about this system/how it worked 2 weeks ago and reading all of your different forums and answers really helped me understand what I was getting into. If we ever have to change this pump out in the future, definitely going to go with the submersible.