Air in Main Supply Line

[Golfdci681]

Hello, I am new to the forum. I am trying to figure out a problem that I am having. I am on a private well that is about 600 ft deep. I have been on the well for 3 years now with no problems. I recently installed an irrigation system that ties into the main water line between my house and the well. The installers used a T pex connection to tie into the line. From there they installed a booster pump for the irrigation because my well only produces about 6gpm. They used a 1.5HP pump for the booster. I have a 1HP pump in my well. I installed a sharkbite check valve in between the T Connection that the irrigation people installed and my house to stop back flow of water when the booster pump kicks on to run my irrigation. The main water line is 3/4 pex and that is the size of the check valve that I put in-line. My problem is that after I run my irrigation system overnight which also is only 5 zones and has a 40 min delay in between zones that I set to help the water level rebuild itself, the next morning when I turn on a faucet or flush a toilet, there is a brief moment when there will either be some air coming out of my faucet or there will be air resonance in my water line to my toilet and as soon as it occurs and finishes, the rest of the day I have no issues. On top of that, it does not happen on a regular basis as well, it happened a few times last week. Then went a week with nothing and now it has done it the last two mornings. I replaced my fluidmaster 400 in my one bathroom that has the noise with a new fluidmaster perfomax version and I also drained the whole system last night to try and get out any air and this morning I still had the problem. Any ideas of what I should do next? Thanks

 

[Jadnashua]

Your checkvalve is leaking, sucking some water out of the home's lines when the irrigation pump is running.

 

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[Golfdci681]

Your checkvalve is leaking, sucking some water out of the home's lines when the irrigation pump is running.

Thanks for the response. Does the valve need to be replaced? I tried to call sharkbite and ask them if the check valve was the correct size in proportion to the system. They also informed me to add a check valve from the T to the sprinkler system itself as well. I just put a 3/4 check valve on the main line because that was the size on the pex pipe for the main line. No one can seem to answer that question to determine whether I have the correct size check valve or not

 

[Reach4]

I am pretty sure that your problem is not a leaky check valve.

What causes your submersible pump to turn on and off? A pressure switch, and if so, where is the pressure switch? Where is the pressure tank. Is there a vacuum relief valve somewhere in your system?

What is the pressure at the input to the booster pump when it is running?

 

[Golfdci681]

A pressure switch turns the sub pump on. It runs at 65/30. It is under a false rock at the well site also where there is a 20 gallon pressure tank. I'm not sure the pressure to the input booster itself but at a hose bib I registered it to be around 35-40psi. The booster runs about 70psi roughly. As far as a vacuum relief valve. I'm not sure. I believe there is on at the well site but I'm not 100% sure sorry

 

[Golfdci681]

I have looked and found no vacuum valve at the pump site. I'm not sure where else one would be to look. Thanks

 

[Reach4]

The reason I asked about a vacuum relief valve is because that could be a source of air. A leak in a pipe when the booster puts a vacuum into the system could be another, and the well running dry could be another.

With your check valve to the house, what happens to the water pressure in the house? Is there another pressure tank in the house? Did you ever try the system with no check valve to the house?

I am not a pro.

 

[Golfdci681]

The well is just at 3 years old. Like I originally posted, we never had this issue prior to putting this system in. As far as the valve. I have not noticed a decrease in the pressure at all. There is not other pressure tank in the house, only the 20 gallon at the well site. I have tried it without the valve and that's when we heard the noise the first time which is why I put the valve on. I wasn't sure if I needed to add another check valve to the supply line of the irrigation system in between the T and the irrigation system as well. Thanks

 

[Jadnashua]

When your irrigation pump is running, it is applying suction to both the home branch and from the well. If your checkvalve leaks even just a little bit, the faucets and other valves in the house are designed for pressure not suction, and you could be sucking in a bit of air.

 

[Golfdci681]

The irrigation pump would be applying suction I guess to the backside of the home branches check valve because there is no check valve in between the main line branch and the irrigation pump. Water comes out of the well, through a 20" filter down the main line about 5 feet where the irrigation installers put a T in to tie into the line. From that T going to the irrigation pump there is no check valve and from that T to the house there is an inline sharkbite 3/4 check valve

 

[Golfdci681]

This was another reason why I was asking if the check valve that is installed is the proper size for the task that is suppose to peform

 

[Golfdci681]

I also did not know if a pressure regulator after the irrigation pump be be helpful in slowing down the water being drawn out of the well would be beneficial or be counter intuitive to the fact that I put on a booster pump to increase the pressure only to slow it down with a regulator?

 

[PumpMd]

about 600 ft deep(how deep is the submersible pump set in your well?)

I have a 1HP pump(gpm pump end?) in my well.

Recovery rate in (GPM) the well makes? this needed to be checked before you installed the sprinkler system vs finding out later.

Check and make sure your pressure on the submersible pump isn't dropping lower than the pre-charge in your 20gal pressure tank. Because, My problem is that after I run my irrigation system overnight which also is only 5 zones and has a 40 min delay in between zones that I set to help the water level rebuild itself, the next morning when I turn on a faucet or flush a toilet, there is a brief moment when there will either be some air coming out of my faucet or there will be air resonance in my water line to my toilet and as soon as it occurs and finishes, the rest of the day I have no issues.

From there they installed a booster pump for the irrigation because my well only produces about 6gpm from the 3/4" Pex main water line and that is the size of the check valve that I put in-line. 1" 200psi pipe is used normally around here from the sprinkler guys to carry the volume and pressure needed for the heads. But, they also needed to replace the 3/4" Pex line going to the well to make a difference. Not, unless it could suck more water through the small pipe.

If it's not on the submersible pump side of the tee, then it's probably something they did on their side of the sprinkler system. Backflow preventer sounds like it wasn't installed. Maybe, your drawing in air because how they installed/designed your sprinkler system. The sprinkler systems lines drain out here in my area because of the freezing temperatures and they only bury them 1ft underground to fit the 1ft valve cover boxes.

I've never seen someone install a booster pump on a submersible pump that can build more max pressure than the 70psi from the booster pump. The only time it can't do this, is when the pump is getting maxed out from the depth of your static water level. Even a 1/2hp 10gpm pump can build around 95psi max.

These are things that need to be checked before we can really say anything else. None of us are there with you to test things out. It's always best to do the exact same thing as you been doing and that's running the sprinkler system to duplicate the problem until it happens.

 

[Golfdci681]

Hello, sounds like you have the same problem that I do. The air only comes out briefly when I turn the water on in a faucet or run the toilet. After it happens I have no more issues throughout the day. Is this something that just can not be fixed? They did not install a backflow preventer inbetween where they T'ed into my main line and the irrigation pump(valve box) setup. This is why I think I am getting the air in. I did not run my system last night and sure enough there was no air in my system this morning so it is definitely due to my irrigation system running. Before I had my irrigation system I would water my lawn with tripod sprinklers that I would run in succession for 3 straight hours. I would never have any air in my system in the morning and I would never lose any pressure while I was watering so I am not thinking it is because my water level is dropping in my well. I defiantly think the air is coming in through the sprinkler system and I believe that not having that check valve on that line is causing this issue. I could be completely wrong, but it makes the most sense. I just do not know which type of check valve to install on that line. I know is has to be a spring loaded valve. Just not sure of size or manufacturer to use. Thanks

 

[PumpMd]

Ask the sprinkler guys on here.