Air gap installed on drain tubes (tee)....is this correct?

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montisqu

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Reach4

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Interesting design. I think this method would meet the function and spirit of an air gap and probably code in most places, but there is no P-trap visible. The P-trap is needed.
 

montisqu

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I think the previous plumber said there was some sort of trap in the laundry room for the washing machine. This standpipe connects to that drain (during regeneration, I can hear the water gushing down from the washing machine drain tube).

Would that work?



Edit:

To me I still don't understand how that "tee" works. So when sewer water backsup, isn't it still going up both pipes at the "tee" intersection?
 

Reach4

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To me I still don't understand how that "tee" works. So when sewer water backsup, isn't it still going up both pipes at the "tee" intersection?

If the sewer backs up, it backs up onto the floor via the open lower pipe.

On second thought, it may not meet the literal requirements, but would still meet the spirit IMO. If you cut a 1-inch hole in the side of the taller pipe that is below the bottom of the hoses, that would meet the common view of the air gap.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....-for-softeners-and-backwashing-filters.64755/ describes an air gap idea thread using sanitary tee.

I am not a pro, and I may be wrong.
 
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Bannerman

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To me I still don't understand how that "tee" works. So when sewer water backsup, isn't it still going up both pipes at the "tee" intersection?

Sewer water would backup both pipes through the 'T' but the height of the lower pipe opening, establishes the maximum height any fluid could back-up. As sewer fluid will be released onto the floor out of the lower pipe opening, it cannot then continue to back-up the taller stand pipe to the filter/softener drain tubes. This assumes the clear drain tubes do not extend too far into the standpipe. The open ends of the drain tubes need to remain at least 1" above the height of the lower drain pipe opening.

Since the air gap 'relief opening' is not within the standpipe itself, I can understand Reach4's comment that it may not be in compliance with code. As there is probably little risk that either the standpipe or the 'T' would ever be blocked, it appears this configuration will be reasonably effective to prevent cross contamination.

As mentioned, a 'P' trap is not shown. As you were lead to believe that the drain is routed into the washing machine standpipe and the trap is located there, it would be good to verify. You could post a photo if possible.

I see that the brine tank overflow tube continues to be routed uphill into the standpipe. Since a brine tank overflow is unlikely, it probably is a none issue.
 

montisqu

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Great, I'm relieved now.

One more question, is there ever a problem in having both the softener and water filter regenerate at the same time?
 

Reach4

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One more question, is there ever a problem in having both the softener and water filter regenerate at the same time?
Yes. The main problem would be if the pump could not maintain enough flow for both regenerations at the same time while maintaining 30 PSI or more.
 

Bannerman

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They should be programmed so that they never cycle at the same time. A softener will typically be programmed to regenerate at 2am. When a softener regeneration occurs, it often will require 1.5 - 2 hrs to complete.

The filter, should then be set to backwash at a different time so perhaps 4 or 4:30am may be appropriate. A filter will often be programmed for a 10-15 minute backwash followed by a 3-5 minute rinse.

With the digital controllers, the cycle time is usually programmable.
 

montisqu

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Oh ok...I will set the softener 1-2 hours behind.

Another issue..I added salt about 1.5 weeks back (1x 40lb bag)...it looks like the brine tank is still full. I tested the water and it comes out to 334 PPM even after letting the tap run for 1 hour. See attached pic for inside brine tank.

Is that normal? I do see the filter and softener regenerating so not sure how I'm getting a 300-350PPM reading.
 

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Bannerman

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I added salt about 1.5 weeks back (1x 40lb bag)...it looks like the brine tank is still full.
It appears to me as your brine tank is almost empty of salt. You can fill the tank with salt right to the top.

Oh ok...I will set the softener 1-2 hours behind.
What time is each set to cycle now?

I tested the water and it comes out to 334 PPM
If you're using a TDS meter, that is inappropriate for testing water hardness. If you wish to test yourself, a Hach 5B Hardness test kit would be most appropriate.
 
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Reach4

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Another issue..I added salt about 1.5 weeks back (1x 40lb bag)...it looks like the brine tank is still full. I tested the water and it comes out to 334 PPM even after letting the tap run for 1 hour. See attached pic for inside brine tank.

Is that normal? I do see the filter and softener regenerating so not sure how I'm getting a 300-350PPM reading.


It is not normal to get 334 PPM of HARDNESS after softening. You wouldn't be using a TDS meter, would you? A softener will not reduce TDS. You want a Hach 5B test for hardness. If you really are getting 334 PPM of hardness, make sure the softener is not in bypass. Otherwise, your softener is probably defective.

You don't seem to have much salt in your brine tank. Add enough to get some salt above the water line, even if you tilt the salt surface to do it. That prevents stratification. I don't know how much of a problem stratification in a softener is, but raising the salt level will make sure it is not a problem.
 

montisqu

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Ah....OK I ordered a Hach kit. Yep, I was using a TDS meter....did not even realize there was a difference!

So, the water filter is set to cycle at 2am. The softener is set to cycle 3am. (Both are internal hardcoded to regenerate at 2am. Therefore, I just set the softener clock 1 hour behind the real time).


What happens if the brine tank is empty of salt? Will it damage the system? I will fill it with salt soon.
 

Reach4

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So, the water filter is set to cycle at 2am. The softener is set to cycle 3am. (Both are internal hardcoded to regenerate at 2am. Therefore, I just set the softener clock 1 hour behind the real time).
That would be unusual for an electronic controller to be hard-coded at 2 AM. For mechanical, the clock could move later with power outages. That would be a reason to have the mechanical controller scheduled later than the electronic timer.

Filter backwash is shorter. It is unlikely that cycle is over a half hour. Softener regen will go maybe 1.5 or more hours typically.
What happens if the brine tank is empty of salt? Will it damage the system? I will fill it with salt soon.
Won't soften. I have seen people say that in such a case, you should bring the brine back with an extra strong regeneration the next time... maybe 18 pounds of salt (3 gallons of water in the brine tank) for each cuft of resin. Resin may permanently degrade to some extent if you don't have salt for several regens. I don't know about that degradation. To do that, you pour extra water into the brine tank a few hours before regen, rather than bothering to reprogram the controller.
 

ENIGMA-2

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I had the plumber install an air gap on the standpipe. He installed a "tee". Could someone look at the following pic and tell me if it's correctly done and whether backwash is still possible?
As long as the piping your plumber installed connects to the washing machine standpipe (before the trap) and not to the actual trap arm, you should not have a problem. As for a code issue, I would look to see if the "overflow" opens at least 18" above the washer trap weir. (It may never cause a problem, 18" is minimum code is all).
 
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