Again,,,,, new deepened well in Arizona, confused,,,what pump and motor

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Rockwind1

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I recently had my "good" well on my 20 acre "ranch" start not functioning correctly,, turned out the well had started not producing as much. anyway,,,, I deepened the well to 680 ft. the static water level was sounded at 109ft deep before I deepened it ( I assume it is still the same) anyways, at 350 the well started producing 2 gpm. I went down to 680 ( expensive but my new Biden Bucks are so worthless I figured I would throw them down into a hole in the ground),, and hit hard stuff and it was still producing 2 gpm. (sad face) :( this well pumps water into a 2500 gallon black storage tank. there is a jet pump inside the well house next to the black water tank which then pumps the stored water to barn and other places. there is a system that turns the submersible pump on and off depending on water level in the tank. so it should be pumping about 2000-2300 gallons in to the tank every other day depending on usage of course.

when there are horses and people there I could see using 300-700 gallons a day. maybe more. I guess I could see the new submersible down at 670 ft running for 10-18 hours every other day if it ran at 2 gpm.

the local well company that drilled wants to use a franklin 3 phase 1.5hp 5gpm motor and a franklin 1.5hp 5 gpm pump ( is how it is written on estimate)

obviously I don't have 3 phase power at the property so this is a "sub drive" modulated motor which has a soft start capability and kind of runs itself based on a pressure sensor. 1" diameter schedule 120 PVC pipe and 12 guage pump wire. the guy wants to install a 5 gpm restrictor plate or (Dole valve) because at static water level, the pump will be pumping too much out of it's pump curve. it all makes sense to me, i like the "3 phase" motor idea.

what I don't get is why not restrict it to a 2 gpm restrictor valve because otherwise, I think the pump will out-pump the water in the hole and then be running dry for a bit before it shuts off. perhaps a timer is in order. I think maybe if a 5 gpm pump is restricted to pumping 2 gpm,, is that bad for the pump? is it out of it's pump curve? I don't know.

is it not possible to get a pump in the 2 gpm range at that depth?

has anyone put a "sub-drive pump in? happy with it?

I've read that the franklin pumps are not that great and the Grundfos pump is better,, is it possible to match a Grundfos with a franklin sub drive motor?

the other factor to consider is the power coming from my main power panel at the house is about 200-250 ft away,,,running, i think, #6 for about 30ft to a subpanel, and then about 220 ft of (#8) i think down to the pump house,, then about 40 ft of 12 guage or 10 guage from the old pump control box to the casing cap.
 

Reach4

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The problem is that that the pump has to build enough pressure to pump the water up when the level has fallen to near the pump. When pumping from 109, if you used a 2 or 3 gpm Dole valve, that would generate more pressure than the Dole valve could take.

It might make sense to limit the flow to maybe 7 gpm. I think 7 is not far out of the pump curve. I have not tried to work the number on that, but the point would be to avoid upthrust problems on the pump. But compute the pressure that the Dole valve could see when the water is high.

You would use a device to monitor the current to detect an out-of-water condition. Franklin calls their devices that do that Pumptec. It would shut down the pump for a selectable amount of time.

Since you expect to run a lot of hours, assuming you go with a single phase motor, the control boxes with the run capacitors will be more power efficient.

Actually, after reviewing stuff, I think I might prefer a 1 HP 5 gpm pump for your application over a 2 HP. Or maybe a 1.5 HP. I would still pump some water from 660, depending on the pump. You look at the curves, and see what you see. If the water gets far enough down, the smaller-motor pump will pump less water. Don't just do it. Study and ask others.

I am not a pro. This could give you some thoughts . I have not checked your wire size plan.

If the well is big enough, no reason to not use a flow inducer. No downside. It keeps the motor cooler.
 
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Rockwind1

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The problem is that that the pump has to build enough pressure to pump the water up when the level has fallen to near the pump. When pumping from 109, if you used a 2 or 3 gpm Dole valve, that would generate more pressure than the Dole valve could take.

It might make sense to limit the flow to maybe 7 gpm. I think 7 is not far out of the pump curve. I have not tried to work the number on that, but the point would be to avoid upthrust problems on the pump. But compute the pressure that the Dole valve could see when the water is high.

You would use a device to monitor the current to detect an out-of-water condition. Franklin calls their devices that do that Pumptec. It would shut down the pump for a selectable amount of time.

Since you expect to run a lot of hours, assuming you go with a single phase motor, the control boxes with the run capacitors will be more power efficient.

Actually, after reviewing stuff, I think I might prefer a 1 HP 5 gpm pump for your application over a 2 HP. Or maybe a 1.5 HP. I would still pump some water from 660, depending on the pump. You look at the curves, and see what you see. If the water gets far enough down, the smaller-motor pump will pump less water. Don't just do it. Study and ask others.

I am not a pro. This could give you some thoughts . I have not checked your wire size plan.

If the well is big enough, no reason to not use a flow inducer. No downside. It keeps the motor cooler.
it has 4.5" white pvc casing. i will see about a flow inducer
 

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it has 4.5" white pvc casing. i will see about a flow inducer
Not enough room in 4.5 inch OD casing for a flow inducer on a 4 inch pump, and I don't think you could use a 3 inch pump.

4.5 inches ID? Not sure.
 

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I think what you read about the Franklin floating stage pumps is they are not as good with a CSV. I could be mistaken.

I think 1 inch schedule 120 PVC drop pipe would be nicer than steel, because it does not rust.

Your well will be top-feeding I expect. With the water coming in from above, there will not be water flow around the motor unless you have a flow inducer.

If you used a Grundfos 5SQ15-450, you could put a flow inducer on that. That would pump 2 gpm with the water about 640 ft down, and it could readily use a flow inducer. That would route the water around the motor. I am not a pro, and I expect your driller to be skeptical of a 3 inch pump that deep. The SQ pumps do include some run-dry protection build in, but the off-time is not programmable.
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It seems to me that having the storage in the hole is not so important for you, since you are filling a tank. So having a smaller pump not as deep would not hurt your total production much. I know an advantage to putting a pump down close to the bottom will make you feel the extra depth was not in vain. But still, I am thinking that a smaller 5gpm pump will give you about as good of performance.

I would be interested in contrary discussion.
 
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Valveman

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The lure of the three phase motor and smaller wire sets the trap for much more money spent on equipment over the years. Splurge for the bigger wire and a regular single phase motor if you want something that will last 30 years instead of 5. There are plenty of devices available to protect single phase pumps from running dry.
 

Valveman

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Hers is a video showing how the longer run times makes VFD's use more energy than a standard full speed pump. They also talk about how the short life and high cost of the VFD itself adds up over the years to make a VFD system several times more expensive than a regular full speed pump.

 
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