Advice please - replacing water softener

[Canadian Reno]

Hello,
I have learned a lot in reading your forum...thank you!

Now, I am hoping you can give me some advice on a water softener. I recently had a full water test done and can provide a multitude of numbers but I will try to give you what I think will be pertinent.
Hardness 404, Calcium 93, Magnesium 41.09, Iron 0.08, Manganese 0.096..no sulpher yeah!

***Sorry, I should have mentioned that the units are in mg/L. I believe that the formula for converting the hardness to grains per gallon is...404 ppm divided by 17.1 = 23.6 gpg. ***

I do not intend to drink my water so I am only looking for soft water for household needs such as showering, dishes, laundry and to save the wear and tear on appliances. There are 2 adults, 1 teen and a dishwasher.

I have been looking at a website in Canada call Aquatell as they will ship from Canada. One of the things they talk about is 'true water softener capacity'..... http://www.aquatell.com/knowledge-center/understanding-true-water-softener-capacity . This caught my eye as I had a plumber quote me on a softener and he told me that the softener would use approx. 3 times as much salt as I was using before!!! That is when I started to do some research.

The softener needs replacing but the iron remover unit is still quite new and seemed to be working fine prior to the softener quitting. I see many posts recommending the Fleck or Autrol systems and to stay away from Sears, Home Depot etc.

Any suggestions or recommendations would be much appreciated. What size should I get and how much salt do you think I would use?

Many thanks,

 

[ditttohead]

Aquatell should be fine.

A "48,000" grain unit is usually programmed to no more than 36,000 grains and regenerated with 8 pounds of salt per cu. ft. It can be regenerated with even less salt for better salt efficiency.

Either Autotrol or Fleck from Aquatell is good,

Est. usage, less than a bag a month.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Canadian Reno]

Thank you Dittohead for your reply. I was beginning to think that no one was going to help.

May I clarify something else? You mention the 48,000 grain unit...is this the size that you think I need or were you simply using it as an example?

I emailed Aquatell before posting to the forum to see what they said and this was their reply..."you're right on the borderline between a softener with 1.5 or 2.0 cubic feet of resin (each of these are also called a 48,000 and 64,000 grain softener, respectively). When a customer is on the border line I usually like to recommend the larger of the two. There is no loss of salt efficiency with the larger system, and in fact, it improves your water consumption because it regenerates less often. When set up on the highest salt efficiency settings, a 2.0 cubic foot system would use 12 pounds of salt and would regenerate about once every 7 to 8 days." They are suggesting the Fleck 5600 SXT 64,000 grain. When they say it will use 12 pounds of salt does that mean each time it regenerates????

Help!!! Your advice is much appreciated.

 

[ditttohead]

I would not disagree with what they wrote in any way. I always lean toward a slightly larger system. 12 pounds per regeneration is correct. But the actual system capacity will be 40,000, not 64000.

In order to get 64000 grains, your system would need to regenerate with 36 pounds of salt each regeneration.

 

[Lifespeed]

If your water main is larger than 3/4" get the Fleck 7000SXT to maintain good flow.

 

[ditttohead]

Agreed, the 7000SXT is an exceptional valve and offers the highest performance. If you ever decide to add that "Mega-Rain-Shower" to your bathroom, it is nice to know you will not lack flow rate due to the water treatment system.

 

[Canadian Reno]

Thank you Dittohead for your opinion on the quote. I was afraid they may have been trying to sell me more than I needed. When the original softener was installed 25 years ago it was only a 30,000 and I could definitely tell the difference when more salt needed to be added. I can't imagine what the water will feel like with a 64,000!!
I also saw your agreement with lifespeed's recommendation of the Fleck 7000SXT...much appreciated. While it might be nice to have the Mega Rain Shower experience, my shallow well would not be able to handle it. Conserving water is a must especially during the dry summer months.
I guess my next step is to now decide on the Autotrol or Fleck and get my order in.
I am so glad I found this forum.

 

[Canadian Reno]

Hi lifespeed,
Thank you for your recommendation of the Fleck 7000 SXT. The water pressure in the house is not very good.
Grateful for the info!

 

[Gary Slusser]

I see a problem with your thinking, it is that the 7000 is going to allow more water through the same size softener than say a 5600 would. IMO the 5600 is a better choice than the 7000 and it isn't over sized as the 7000 is in many residential applications.

BTW, your water pressure is controlled by the pressure range you set on the pressure switch that controls your well pump.

Also, the salt dose used is based on the cuft volume of resin in the softener and what salt efficiency you want to operate the softener with, the control valve has nothing to do with that as long as both allow the same lbs to be used per regeneration.

You can get larger than 3/4" plumbing connectors for a 5600.

 

[ditttohead]

Actually, the larger porting will cause less pressure drop, frictional loss, etc. You are correct in your thinking that the 5600 will probably not be any noticably better than the 7000 in this application, but there is no disadvantage to using the 7000SXT. Other than it is physically larger if a few inches of space is of major concern.

The 7000 is an exceptional valve, click on the link in my signature to see it being rebuilt. Rebuilding the Fleck valves is usually done once every decade or 2.

 

[Lifespeed]

I did not see the OP post the diameter of their piping. This would inform the 5600 vs 7000 decision. But there really is no disadvantage to the larger valve.

OTOH, adapting a 5600 to a size larger than 3/4" would be silly.

 

[ditttohead]

Totally agree. The 7000 has no real disadvantage other than it is physiaclly larger. It has a better bypass, better plumbing connector options, lower internal flow restrictions, a much lower cost meter replacement for future repairs, a lower cost replacement board, and it is a very simple system to maintain. The 5600SXT is certainly no slouch of a valve, but... why? When you can have the 7000 for almost the same cost, it just doesnt make sense for most people. Oh yeah, now I remeber, one person on this board hates the 7000 because he had problems with it 10 years ago... LOL.

If I used that logic, then every valve would be a piece of junk. The Clack WS1 with their board issues a couple years ago and their ongoing broken button problems, the 7000 leaking to brine issue, the 5600 24 volt motor issues, the 2510 tank connector issues, the 5000 motor issues, the Autotrol... every valve has had it share of issues over the years. I think my video on the 7000 rebuild says it all. Simple, easy, and less than 5 minutes to rebuild, just like any of the Fleck and clack valves. My video diesnt even sow the actual way we rebuild them in the feild, I just show people the "by the book" way. In reality, I take off a minute by not manually syncronizing the system.

The advantage of the 7000 is that you can install it in the majority of residential application without worrying about flow rates or restrictions as long as your tank size is adequate.

Canadian Reno, assuming you have a normal sized house, any of the Autotrol or Fleck valves will do you just fine. But why not go for the best? If you can afford the few extra dollars for the 7000, I would highly recommend it. Any way you go, as long as you stick with original Fleck or Autotrol, you will be very happy with your decision.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I only stock two valves, the fleck 7000 and the clackws1. Those two valves cover 99% of anything you are likely to run into residentially and they will handle an awful lot of commercial too. I would like to know why Gary is so vehemently opposed to the 7000. It's not a whole lot more money than the 5600, it is slightly larger physically but I can't ever recall that being a problem and its just so versatile. I think he hates it because we all like it LOL

 

[ditttohead]

He had some problems with it years ago, and I understand that can leave a bad taste, but... if you were to judge every valve that same way, which valve would be good? The WS1 has had several problems over the years, no big deal. The board error code issues, the broken button issue, etc. So what? Except for some very minor problems, it is an exceptional valve. Same goes for the 7000. A few problems along the way, the 2510 had it fair share of problems, even the new 5800 has had a few minor hiccups. Considering that 99+% go out without a problem is good by me.

You gonna be at the Water Expo this year in Florida expanding your knowledge of the industry and the products and technologies we service? What kind of Beer?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'm thinking probably. I'd like to do Amsterdam but I doubt I can slide that one by my director. What's the Florida date? I see its in Miami which is great because I have a condo not too far up the road.

 

[ditttohead]

http://thewaterexpo.com/ Miami is nice, I have a few Hotels I like there. I will be in Orlando area and Tampa that week.

Sept 17-18. I have done the Amsterdam show a few times. It is huge, u a lot of it the municipalities systems suppliers, Wastewater, etc. The residential and commercial water treatment stuff is a small part of the show.

 

[Gary Slusser]

If your water main is larger than 3/4" get the Fleck 7000SXT to maintain good flow.

That would be true if you were only running water through the valve but when the valve is on a softener it isn't going to increase the flow that anyone would be able to notice it.

And as to pressure drop, maybe 2 to 3 lbs loss if that but don't forget the distributor tube and resin is all part of the softener.

Yes I had many problems with many 7000s just after it came on the market in Feb of 2005 but correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't there a months long recall on the 7000 the end of last year into like March of this year? Anyway, if a 5600 works, which is a 3/4" valve, then a 7000, which is a 1.25" valve, is overkill. And personally, I think the 5600 would probably last longer.