Advice For New System Addressing Ph Level

[RhodeIslander]

hi guys, 1st post.

I've gotten a handful of quotes from different local companies over the last few weeks -- I know we need some treatment on our well system, because I've been through a couple of hot water tanks within warranty periods now one after another, and we have slight green discoloration from the ph. Drinking water is otherwise fine. I have nothing on our system right now except a big blue sediment filter cartridge, which is usually pretty reddish after a few months.

Quick water results -- the main things the tests have shown are:
ph 5.98
hardness 51.3 ppm
TDS 175 MM
nitrates .5 PPM
Everything else was pretty much Not Detected, though one company (out of 3) reported an Iron reading of "1.0" and Manganese at "0.05"

The quotes I've gotten are:

1) Fleck 9 X 48 ph Neutralizer + Fleck 32,000 grain capacity Water Softener (5600SXT Digital Control Valve). Roughly $1800 installed.

2) Soda Ash Feed system plus Radial flow cartridge filter (this is the company that said my iron reading was high and worth addressing, which the others did not). $1960 installed. (This company didn't feel the hardness was worth addressing apparently)

3) Kinetico ph neutralizer + softener, aprx. $5300 (really don't want to spend this amount!)

I have another local plumber who did a test and I'm waiting to hear back on his quote.

I would like to know what you suggest would be the best system for the $ and also taking maintenance into account -- I know very little about this but am willing to learn. What is the difference between the Fleck units and something like the Soda Ash in terms of effectiveness?

thanks in advance!

 

[ditttohead]

If you don't mind the slight hardness, I would lean toward the soda ash system. Considering your numbers, I would use a sod ash with some polyphosphate adder as well. Be sure it includes a good pump and meter, there are a few really cheap Chinese companies that sell real junk over here. Either way you will have some maintenance.

 

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[RhodeIslander]

If you don't mind the slight hardness, I would lean toward the soda ash system. Considering your numbers, I would use a sod ash with some polyphosphate adder as well. Be sure it includes a good pump and meter, there are a few really cheap Chinese companies that sell real junk over here. Either way you will have some maintenance.

Thanks, I think I'll go with that option, though that installer can't get here for another 3 weeks.

Would there any benefits to the Fleck units over the Soda Ash for my water?

I had one other quote coming from another company, which turned out to be $2400 and he recommended the same Fleck neutralizer & softener as the earlier quote. He wrote:

• PH Neutralizer. Fully Automatic with 5600 Fleck Control valve, with S/S bypass. 10x54 Polyglass tank,flow rates up to 20GPM. A custom blend of calcite and corosex is mixed for each unit to insure accurate PH correction.
• 32,000 grain water conditioner. Fully automatic metered demand fleck 5600 regenerated control valve with S/S bypass. (save up to 50% on salt and rinse water) Flow rates up to 20GPM. 9x48 Polyglass mineral tank. 300 LB brine storage.

His water test results read as:

Iron: .07 PPM as Fe Over 0.3PPM stains plumbing fixtures and clothes
pH: 6.5 units 7.0 indicates water is neutral, over 7.0 is alkaline, 6.8 or under is corrosive
Hardness: 3 gpg as CaCO3 Over 3.5 gpg wastes soap, forms scale, clogs hot water heater and pipes
Manganese: N/D ppm as Mn Over 0.05ppm stains plumbing fixtures and clothes
Tannin: N/T ppm as tannic acid Causes light tea colored water and possible filter plugging
Chlorides N/T calc ppm as CaCO3 Over 250 ppm may have a salty taste to the water
TDS: 142 ppm as CaCO3 Total dissolved solids, 500 ppm is EPA suggested maximum contaminant level
Turbidity: N/D NTU units Amount of visible dirt and suspended matter in water
Color: N/D units Caused by substance in solution
Suspended Matter: N/D As visually detected in sample
Iron Bacteria: N/D As visually detected in sample
Odor: N/D As detected in sample
Rust: N/D As visually detected in sample
Sodium: 91* ppm Based on a calculation derived from TDS and hardness*
UVT: >85% Percent Percentage of Ultraviolet light transmitted through the sample**

 

[ditttohead]

Not really, but that is an opinion. Either way will work. You have excellent water with just some minor problems that need correcting. You have nearly soft water so adding calcite and magnesium to raise pH/buffer the water, then remove and exchange the calcium and magnesium with sodium, this works perfectly and is a tried and true method. So is soda ash injection.

 

[RhodeIslander]

Thanks, if it's all roughly equal I'll go with soda ash since it's the company I'm most comfortable with, and they also happen to have the lowest estimate too. Whatever corrosion I can see in our tub (slightly greenish hue) is the result of decades of having untreated water so I'm probably Ok waiting a few more weeks.

I appreciate the replies!

 

[RhodeIslander]

Wanted to follow up -- I went with the soda ash injection system (with the 2 Big Blue filters for Iron/Maganese and sediment).

Install 2 weeks ago went fine, water immediately tasted less metallic, and the dripping with corrosion I saw from one pipe has gotten better. The installers came back today, checked and slightly readjusted the ph level and all looked good.

Only thing I've noticed is when the soda ash was first mixed -- both the first time 2 weeks ago, and again today as they refilled the tank -- the water tasted salty right afterwards. It went away after a few days before, though it seems stronger now than when they installed it the first time.

Watching what he was doing today (they recommended I record it for future use), he told me the mixture for what they use is 1 scoop of the soda ash per 10 gallons of water in the tank -- but in the 35 gallon tank we have, he added 3 scoops onto 8 gallons that were already in there, which would've been fine if it were a 38 gallon tank.

If my math is right (please forgive me), should I add (when I can) another 3 gallons of water in there to dilute it? Is it OK to do that? Would that explain why it's saltier-tasting this time??

Also -- is this something normal when the mixture is first made up and dissipates over time, or is this something that needs readjustment and I should have them come back?

 

[ditttohead]

Soda ash injection levels should not add a salty taste but anything is possible. The sudden change in pH can cause some unusual things to happen in your plumbing. These issue tend to dissipate over time. Can you get a simple tds reading before and after? I am currently writing an article on soda injection rates but I am a few weeks off from finishing it. I will post it here when I am done.

 

[Reach4]

If my math is right (please forgive me), should I add (when I can) another 3 gallons of water in there to dilute it? Is it OK to do that? Would that explain why it's saltier-tasting this time??

You should be measuring pH yourself. Yes, check the TDS too.

 

[RhodeIslander]

Soda ash injection levels should not add a salty taste but anything is possible. The sudden change in pH can cause some unusual things to happen in your plumbing. These issue tend to dissipate over time. Can you get a simple tds reading before and after? I am currently writing an article on soda injection rates but I am a few weeks off from finishing it. I will post it here when I am done.

Thanks, I need to buy my own pH and TDS meter. I could also use a "soda ash for dummies" book if you are going to write one!

The company that installed just left and it wasn't my imagination, my formerly too-low pH was now "sky high" so whoever was here Wednesday to "check the system" and fill up the tank they installed made some kind of error. The guy who came today spent about 90 minutes working on it, got it to 7.6 and I can tell the water is back to tasting fine, as it did when it was first put in 2 weeks ago. The mixture was diluted and dialed down, so I'm supposed to put in "1 cup of solution per 15 gallons at 20% [on the pump]"

I can see how this is a trial and error deal though so I will buy my own test kits and check it over time. I'll definitely come back here to solicit some advice when needed