Adding light to three- way switch behind wall

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stkn

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Hi all,

I would like to add a second light to an existing three-way switch circuit with one light currently. The existing circuit is very standard... power from breaker to switch 1, 14/3 NM to switch 2, then 14/2 to the light. Nothing else on the circuit. I know the ideal is obviously to add the new light after the first.

But here's my dilemma. The first switch is in an unfinished area at the bottom of a staircase. The stairway, however, is totally finished (texture, paint, etc.), so the second switch and light are both behind the finished wall. To add the second light after the first one per standard, I would have to cause significant damage to the finished wall and ceiling. I'm not sure it will be practical to fish a wire through holes either, given the number of studs and/or joists I would have to penetrate in any feasible direction.

I'll cut into the finished wall if I have to, but would prefer not to. Is there any way to add the second light either before the first switch or between the switches using the existing setup? Seems to me that I'm probably out of luck, but I thought I'd ask all the same before I start tearing the wall up.
 

WorthFlorida

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Can’t you just wire from the existing light to the new light? You do not have to wire to any wall switch. You make your hole in the ceiling and fish a wire to the other light. Opening up walls or ceiling is not that hard to repair. All hardware stores sell spray texture in a can and it works extremely well. I’ve used the spray several times.

What is above the stairway ceiling?
 
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stkn

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Yeah, that's the problem. The second light is behind the finished area and it's not close to any unfinished area. Above the ceiling is the second floor of the house. To get from the light to the unfinished portion would require penetrating about 6 joists and/or studs depending on the route. I just don't see how it would be possible to fish that easily. The second switch is closer, but still would require penetrating at least a couple studs. There's no straight route through a stud bay or between joists from the finished to unfinished areas, unfortunately.
 

stkn

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Yeah, that's the problem. The second light is behind the finished area and it's not close to any unfinished area. Above the ceiling is the second floor of the house. To get from the light to the unfinished portion would require penetrating about 6 joists and/or studs depending on the route. I just don't see how it would be possible to fish that easily. The second switch is closer, but still would require penetrating at least a couple studs. There's no straight route through a stud bay or between joists from the finished to unfinished areas, unfortunately.

That's why I'm wondering if it's even possible to wire the second light to the first switch or something like that. I'm thinking it's not possible and I'm stuck figuring out how to fish the wire along the most efficient route. If that's what I have to do, then I'll do it. But just wanted to see if there are any other clever ideas I haven't thought of first, just to make sure I haven't missed some other solution.
 

Stuff

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I thought there used to be some smart switches that would replace both of your 3-ways using current wiring. Some could each feed a light but I can't find that version now.
 

stkn

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Perhaps I should clarify. I did talk about connecting between the switches, but that was a sloppy explanation on my part. I certainly realize that in terms of the circuit you can never have switched loads before the switches. That would obviously be impossible. But in terms of pulling the wires, it's totally possible to, say, run a wire from the breaker to the light fixture box first, then pull the wires from there to one single pole switch or even to two three-way switches. You end up connecting the wires in the boxes such that the electricity bypasses the light and runs first to the switch then returns back to the light. It involves relabeling some of the white neutral wires as switched wires, but it is possible to pull the wires that way. Plenty of those diagrams online.

So that makes me wonder if something similar is possible in my situation, though I would essentially be setting up something where the wiring runs from breaker to light to switch 1 to switch 2 then to the second light. Since there would be a light on both ends of the wiring, the only way I know to make it work so that the electricity goes to the switches before the lights would require a four conductor run between the switch boxes. But that wouldn't make sense, since I'd have to cut into the wall to change the wiring between boxes anyway, at which point it would clearly be better to just connect to the existing light instead.

So I figure I'm going to have to cut into the wall. But since the particular placement of the lights and switches makes that a rather large job, I just thought I'd see if anyone knew of some other clever trick before I proceed. Sounds like there's probably not.

I have heard of smart switches, but haven't investigated them much. Thanks for that suggestion. Maybe I'll take a look at that and see if it's a possible solution.
 

Jadnashua

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The big box stores sell a flexible shaft drill bit that's about 6' long and you can buy an extension. The tip has a hole in it so once you've drilled through the joists into the area where you want the light, you can either attach the wire or a pull string or fish tape to it, then pull it back out. They come in various diameters to accommodate different wires. That may be your easiest way to do this. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-3-4-in-x-72-in-Cable-Bit-48-13-8375/203115403

I've not looked, but it might be available to rent, or you might find someone that has one that you could borrow.
 

hj

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You are making this very complicated. The ONLY way you can add a light to the circuit is to connect it in parallel to the existing fixture, whether it is a "switch #2", (assuming it has a neutral wire at the box), fixture #1, (which will have a neutral), or the wiring between the switch and light, (again, which may not have a neutral).
 
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