Adding a Washing Machine Outlet Box

[DavidfromMich]

I am reconfiguring a laundry room and questioning if I can add a laundry box instead of moving the laundry tub that is current used for the washing machine drain. Here is a picture of what I am thinking, see attached file?

 

[DIYorBust]

It seems like you'd be wet venting something in a way that usually isn't code approved. Will it work ok? I'd say yes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DavidfromMich]

It seems like you'd be wet venting something in a way that usually isn't code approved. Will it work ok? I'd say yes.

How do I find out what parts of code I am not meeting? I live in Michigan

 

[wwhitney]

Up.codes says Michigan is using the IPC:

https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-plumbing-code-2015

Can you clarify what the horizontal drains on the left and the right are, and whether they are already vented? Because if they aren't, there's some issues with the connection to the 1-1/2" vent. And if they are, then why is the 1-1/2" vent there?

Related, what story is this picture, is there any plumbing directly below or directly above?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DavidfromMich]

Up.codes says Michigan is using the IPC:

https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-plumbing-code-2015

Can you clarify what the horizontal drains on the left and the right are, and whether they are already vented? Because if they aren't, there's some issues with the connection to the 1-1/2" vent. And if they are, then why is the 1-1/2" vent there?

Related, what story is this picture, is there any plumbing directly below or directly above?

Cheers, Wayne

Yes the left is a kitchen sink, the right one is the drain for the laundry sink. No other drains are connected above. The 2" connects down to a horizontal connection to the main drain which also has a vent. Its just a vent connected to a vent stack.

 

[wwhitney]

Perhaps most importantly, the IPC requires that the drain for a clothes washer standpipe be increased to 3" when it joins with any other drain. [Seems odd to me.] So that would preclude tying into the 2" drain there, and would suggest sticking with a laundry tub.

https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi...4/fixtures-faucets-and-fixture-fittings#406.2

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Yes the left is a kitchen sink, the right one is the drain for the laundry sink. No other drains are connected above. Its just a vent connected to a vent stack.

On the left, if the kitchen sink is vented only by that 1-1/2" vent, then the fitting where the it joins the stack is wrong, it needs to be a san-tee. And the horizontal trap arm is limited to 8' for a 2" pipe, with a total drop of not more than 2". I also see the trap arm is increased in size in the middle of the run, not sure if that's kosher.

On the right, it looks like there's an elbow going through the drywall on the other side. So if the laundry tub is on the other side, and has a p-trap there, then again the 1-1/2" vent is not properly serving that p-trap, because of the vertical jog of the two elbows. That looks like 1-1/2" pipe, so the trap arm is limited to 6' in length, with a maximum 1-1/2" of drop.

Now, if the drains have vents not shown in the picture, then these conditions are not problems.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DavidfromMich]

Perhaps most importantly, the IPC requires that the drain for a clothes washer standpipe be increased to 3" when it joins with any other drain. [Seems odd to me.] So that would preclude tying into the 2" drain there, and would suggest sticking with a laundry tub.

https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi...4/fixtures-faucets-and-fixture-fittings#406.2

Cheers, Wayne

Thanks for answers Wayne!!! The code doesn't make sense to me since all of the Washing Machine Boxes have 1 1/2 connections to them so I would assume you would connect a 1 1/2 " pipe to them?

 

[DavidfromMich]

On the left, if the kitchen sink is vented only by that 1-1/2" vent, then the fitting where the it joins the stack is wrong, it needs to be a san-tee. And the horizontal trap arm is limited to 8' for a 2" pipe, with a total drop of not more than 2". I also see the trap arm is increased in size in the middle of the run, not sure if that's kosher.

On the right, it looks like there's an elbow going through the drywall on the other side. So if the laundry tub is on the other side, and has a p-trap there, then again the 1-1/2" vent is not properly serving that p-trap, because of the vertical jog of the two elbows. That looks like 1-1/2" pipe, so the trap arm is limited to 6' in length, with a maximum 1-1/2" of drop.

Now, if the drains have vents not shown in the picture, then these conditions are not problems.

Cheers, Wayne

Should I add Air Admittance Valves to the Kitchen Sink and the Laundry room sinks to fix the venting problems?

 

[wwhitney]

P.S. If you fix the venting issues, and you overcome or ignore the 3" drain issue, then your laundry standpipe has to be a 2" pipe, and the vertical portion has to be at least 18" long:

https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-plumbing-code-2015/chapter/7/sanitary-drainage#709.1
https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-plumbing-code-2015/chapter/8/indirect-special-waste#802.3.3

Your final obstacle at that point would be that for non-bathroom fixtures, you can't wet vent 3 different drains like you've drawn. So you'd need to have 2 parallel vertical sections, where the drains tie together low in the wall, and the vents tie together high in the wall.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for answers Wayne!!! The code doesn't make sense to me since all of the Washing Machine Boxes have 1 1/2 connections to them so I would assume you would connect a 1 1/2 " pipe to them?

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-quadtro-14-turn-washing-machine-outlet-box--833792869 says

• 2" drain opening fits PVC or ABS Sch. 40 DWV pipe

Now would you show me one that says its output is pipe 1-1/2 pipe?

 

[wwhitney]

Should I add Air Admittance Valves to the Kitchen Sink and the Laundry room sinks to fix the venting problems?

That is one approach that would solve the existing venting problems. It would also mean that you don't have a wet venting obstacle to adding the laundry standpipe as drawn (it just need to be 2" and the standpipe needs to be taller).

But unless you can upsize the 2" drain at the bottom to a 3" drain, the IPC wants you to stick with a laundry tub and not use a standpipe.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[DavidfromMich]

https://www.oatey.com/products/oatey-quadtro-14-turn-washing-machine-outlet-box--833792869 says

• 2" drain opening fits PVC or ABS Sch. 40 DWV pipe

Now would you show me one that says its output is pipe 1-1/2 pipe?

You are correct it is a 2", sorry I am not a plumber.

 

[WorthFlorida]

As Wayne asked, what is below this floor? Does the 2" drain below the floor tie to a 3" drain pipe nearby? If it does, bring the new laundry 2" pipe below the floor, cut the 1.5" tub drain and bring that below the floor and tie it to the 3" pipe. You'll be able to tie into the existing vent pipe for the new work. Cap of the 1.5" at the tee.

 

[DavidfromMich]

As Wayne asked, what is below this floor? Does the 2" drain below the floor tie to a 3" drain pipe nearby? If it does, bring the new laundry 2" pipe below the floor, cut the 1.5" tub drain and bring that below the floor and tie it to the 3" pipe. You'll be able to tie into the existing vent pipe for the new work. Cap of the 1.5" at the tee.

Thanks for your advice, the 2" drain does connect to a 3" drain but it is not accessible. Basement is finished and connection is behind walls and tile.

 

[DavidfromMich]

This is how it ended up, comments are welcome before it gets closed up and I can make changes...

 

[Reach4]

Biggest problem is that there is no vent for the standpipe trap. The vent line that is there does no good. And the vent for the standpipe, when you get it where it should be -- on the output of the trap at least 4 inches downstream of the trap, should split from the sink vent at least 6 inches higher than the input to the standpipe.

 

[wwhitney]

What Reach4 said, here it is drawn out. The two green tees should be sanitary tees; below the lower sanitary tee is an upright combo to join the drains. Your standpipe trap might be too low for that to fit, raising the trap is probably the easier solution, as long as your standpipe is still at least 18" long.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

PS Here's a less standard layout that would also work and might require less rework that the previous drawing, if it would fit. It replaces the san-tee and combo with the existing wye, a new wye, and a 45. I left gaps in the green line this time to indicate the fittings and orientations.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

got some weired stuff going on. waynes got the right way . cant have vent openings going into stand pipe follow the green lines