About to drill well - Need Advice

[PumpMd]

Try one of these people: https://franklinaid.com/field-service-engineers/

They closed their comment section unfortunately

Texas
Filiberto Zazueta joined Franklin Electric in 2007 as the company’s Field Service Engineer in northern Mexico. In late 2011 Filiberto moved to his current position as Field Service Engineer for Texas.
Prior to Franklin, Filiberto worked as an Application Engineer for Schneider Electric where he designed electrical distribution systems.
Given his professional background, Filiberto feels his area of expertise lies in electrical instrumentation, sensors and valves, and VFDs.
Random Fact: Filiberto enjoys sports and travel.
Contact Filiberto at fzazueta@fele.com.

 

[PumpMd]

Here is some you might not have read yet either

https://franklinaid.com/2008/09/

https://franklininthefield.com/2012/11/09/we-dont-compromise-well-actually-you-do/

https://franklinaid.com/2008/09/30/why-cant-i-hear-the-radio-vfds-and-interference-issues/#more-158

https://franklinaid.com/2000/05/15/variable-frequency-drives/

https://franklinaid.com/2008/07/30/pump-curves-vfds-and-pressure-reducing-valves/

https://franklinaid.com/2002/05/13/subdrive-75-faq/

Subdrive's newer control boxes: http://www.franklinwater.com/media/...wners_manual_combined_languages_10-14_web.pdf

 

[Sponsor]

 

[PumpMd]

Franklin uses Flomatic check valves in their pumps but I would use one these for VFD's: https://www.linkedin.com/company/danfoss-flomatic-valves/

 

[Boycedrilling]

Pump MD, how many failed sub drive sensors would you like me to send you. Also got a bunch of failed fans too.

 

[Boycedrilling]

There are some fundamental differences in how a Franklin sub drive works compared to other variable frequency drives.

A sub drive speeds up and flows down in preset increments. I'm not sure of the exact number of increments, as I recall is around 6 increments. Think of a set of stairs. The stair step or speed the drive operates at is determined by the switch. The switch is actually an Stewart Warner pressure switch that had an adjustable set point, or a copy of the Stewart Warner. If the switch closes, the drive starts on the first stair step. If the switch stays closed, the drive jumps up another step, and keeps going up steps until the switch opens. The it says to its self "aha, I'm fast enough to achieve my target pressure". So what does it do? It drops down a step. If the switch closes, it jumps back up a step. If the switch stays open, it drops down another step. How often does it raise and lower speed? Again I don't remember the exact frequency, but I'm remembering its in excess of 20 or 30 times per second. Then finally, if the drive steps back down to the minimum speed or bottom stair step, and the switch hadn't opened, it knows there is no flow and shuts off, going into sleep mode.

Other VFD's used on wells normally operate off of a pressure transducer. Though I have used large irrigation drives that used a knob (rheostat) that you turned to manually vary the speed. In the constant pressure mode, a transducer sends a 0-20 milliamp or 0-10 volt signal to the drive. This signal represents pressure. The drive then speeds up or slows down to the exact speed needs to meet the programmed pressure. The speed that the drive reacts can be varied in the programming. I have also set up Hitachi drives to work in the stair step method to work with existing controls, so we didn't have to install transducers and shielded wire.

Now why did Franklin design their drive they way they did? Cost. Its a less expensive drive to design and build. Also they are able to use a simple switch that costs less than $50, compared to a transducer that costs around $200. The Franklin drive is also super simple to set up for the installer. Like the one commercial used to say "so simple even a caveman can do it". Let's face it, not all installers are the sharpest knives in the drawer.

 

[Valveman]

Let's face it, not all installers are the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Boy you can say that again! Thanks for the great explanation. I would only add that not only is the switch cheaper than a transducer, but it reacts faster. With some of the VFD's using pressure transducers, they do not react as fast as the flow changes in the yard or field. Because they have such a small pressure tank, when a large sprinkler zone would shut down quickly, the VFD couldn't slow down fast enough, and it would blow out the pipe under the house. So they use the switch as it can shut down faster. At low flow the switch can make and brake 45 times per minute, then the VFD reacts to the switch 20-30 times per second. This cause lots of torquing from the pump, which mainly causes stripped splines, broken shafts, or chaffed drop wire. This is also why they recommend a larger tank with some VFD systems, as that give the drive more time to react.

 

[PumpMd]

Pump MD, how many failed sub drive sensors would you like me to send you. Also got a bunch of failed fans too.

I've never seen any failed fans either. They are like my computer fans and they last a long time too.

 

[PumpMd]

something else to read

 

[Valveman]

I've never seen any failed fans either.

On your systems, you have never seen a failed fan, a filter clogged with sticks, leaves, or lint, multiple check valves don't fail or cause water hammer, excessive cycling doesn't cause failures, pressure switches survive millions of cycles, shrouds are not necessary, and all of your customers do preventive maintenance. I don't see how you stay in business. These are all problems the rest of us see everyday. And I don't know why you are on a DIY forum, trying to help people with these problems, when you have never seen these problems yourself. And since you keep posting Franklin manuals like we haven't all already seen them and know to be skeptical of Franklin's attempt to sell their most profitable items, here is a link to a list of parts for you. With these parts Franklin says their subdrive is "somewhat" repairable, so it looks like others are having these problems.

http://franklinwater.com/products/d...ommercial/subdrivemonodrive/#SpecsAccessories

 

[PumpMd]

I was worried about the rain on their old boxes and when it's 110+ degrees with direct sunlight on them in Oklahoma, will they not overheat. We have very strong winds here to be first ones that would have sticks or leaves in them. Maybe, they should mount the box in a better place. Placement of dip switches was said in the article I posted on here. On the newer control boxes, it won't let you make this mistake because it comes up with a fault code to let you know.

We cover a big area in Oklahoma to keep business flowing. Our 6gen well driller makes it easy for us when your pumping nothing but clear water.

 

[Pettrix]

Measured the well depth today with a reel tape measure. The water level was around 210 feet. So the well driller was accurate when he said 220 feet static water.

The well pump will be set at 480 feet.

 

[Valveman]

I would assume setting the pump at 480' means he thinks the well will pull down from 220' to 470'? If that is the case an SQ pump will only produce about 3 GPM, a 2HP, 10 will produce 9 GPM, and a 3HP, 16 will produce about 12 GPM.

Next you need to know if the well will produce the 10 GPM you want, even from 470'. If not you may want to use a cistern with a booster pump for the house. Then you could install a 1.5HP, 10 GPM or a 1HP, 7 GPM pump in the well to fill the cistern.