4 Year Old Well - Does This Mean Anything At All?

[VAWellDriller]

Thanks so very much for the response VAWellDriller!

Would you happen to be referring to this particular unit? It would be used for a 4" residential well with 1" water piping attached.
https://cannonwater.com/lakos-residential-auto-purge-valve-for-sandmaster-135259/

Also, after going to the Lakos website, I saw they also offered centrifugal-action sand separators. The units I'm speaking of were for above ground installation, appeared they might very well do the job with no moving parts or power required, BUT were very pricey (about $900 for my setup). This type unit may be considered overkill for my needs, but do you have any comments regarding this type unit versus the filter mounted purge valve? If the purge valve unit would do as good a job, that seems to be the best way to go. I guess I'm concerned the purge valve, with moving parts & power glitches involved, might be more trouble than they're worth??

Thanks!

No...this is what I have used:
http://www.lakos.com/gwi-accessories/accupurge

I have used a number of Lakos products and found them to all be high quality. The centrifugal separators you mentioned are very nice, but they too have to be flushed periodically (either manually or with an auto purge valve). As far as longevity, there are moving parts to go bad, all I know is I have 2 of the auto purge systems that have been in place for about 5 years and never had any problem with either.

 

[TVL]

Thanks VAWellDriller!

Well, it appears there aren't many options available for an automated purge valve ............ especially if one would like to have some control of duration and frequency. It looks like Vu-Flow, Rusco and Lakos are about the only viable options and they all cost about the same. I was hoping I could get something for $250 or less, but that doesn't seem to be possible. The Lakos offers the best user control or options for about $450.

I think I'm going to sleep on this one for a day or two, but I' seriously leaning towards ordering the Lakos AP-75-MBV. Especially since you have installed two in the past and they have been issue free.

Most of the time, I could just go out and purge the filter myself and save the cash. But, I don't like the idea of needing to shut off the system when going away on vacation or for any other several day excursion. And, I'm also getting a little lazy in my old age (65).

Thanks for your input! It was very helpful.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

I have made my own self flushers before. You can use a regular solenoid valve like a sprinkler valve in 1/2" or so. I connect it to a time delay relay and wire to the pressure switch. Every time the pressure switch starts the pump is also activates the time delay, which sends power to the solenoid valve for a minute or two. This way the filter gets flushed every time the pump cycles on. If you leave it running long enough to clear up really well a regular sprinkler valve will work. If it still has grit in it I use what they call a "scrubber" solenoid valve that works better in sandy conditions.

 

[TVL]

Thanks Valveman!

That's a good thought. I will give this some serious consideration also.

By the way, I awoke last night with another thought which could be implemented for less than a dollar or two. At the moment, the ball valve for purging the filter is located immediately below the clear plastic cover. If I extend the ball valve down just 2 or 3 inches with a piece of 1" PVC, that will yield more area for sand to settle .................. which also means it should go several days, or maybe longer than that, before sand buildup reaches the bottom of the clear filter chamber. I'm going to do this today and see what happens.

Note: the clear plastic filter cover has a 1/2" MPT cleanout port along with the 1/2" ball valve. Using a 1" piece of PVC pipe as the extender yields a lot of extra "holding area". I might even consider using a piece of 1 1/4".

Thanks again for everyone's comments!

 

[TVL]

Another question for you fellows:

1- In an effort to eliminate the need to flush the Vu-Flow filter every day or so, I have added a very short piece of 1 1/4" pipe between the bottom of the filter cover and the ball valve (about 2" in length). This "cheap" alternative to an automatic flush valve, has yielded a small holding area for the small amount of sand that accumulates each day. While I'm not sure as of yet how often I will need to purge the valve, I suspect it would take at least a week or so to fill the additional holding area if I'm only pumping a tablespoon or less of sand each day.

2- So, my question is as follows: If I'm getting approximately a tablespoon of sand "up top" each day the irrigation system runs, am I also likely to be getting the same amount of sand accumulation down inside the well casing? If this is the case, then it is only a matter of time (10 years??) before a large amount of sand accumulates and reaches the bottom of the pump.

 

[VAWellDriller]

I doubt you will fill the well up......it has likely filled to a point of equilibrium already where there is enough velocity when the pump is running to pump out whatever the well is making.

 

[TVL]

***** Update With Photos *****

I just thought I would take time to give a quick update:

1- The very short piece of pipe I added between the bottom of the filter enclosure and the ball valve has indeed eliminated me having to flush the filter on a daily basis. The additional piping well serves as a very cheap and effective reservoir.

I purged the filter after 4 days of use and collected the sand that came out. I let it dry thoroughly and then measured the total amount of sand. I had "pumped" approximately 2 ounces of sand after 4 daily cycles of the irrigation system or approximately 15,000 gallons of water. The photo is attached. (note: the sand is very, very fine - not the least bit coarse)

2- Today, the filter plugged once again with what appears to be clay or well "mud". This is now the 4th time this year. This photo is also attached.

 

[Reach4]

There are filters that will backwash the filter screen. Twistiiclean is one. http://www.twistiiclean.com/

Also see
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/atlas-filtri-hydra-video.69789/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/does-anyone-know-this-filter.69165/#post-513488

 

[TVL]

There are filters that will backwash the filter screen. Twistiiclean is one. http://www.twistiiclean.com/

Also see
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/atlas-filtri-hydra-video.69789/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/does-anyone-know-this-filter.69165/#post-513488

Thanks reach!

The Vu-Flow filter I'm currently using is basically the same as you have suggested. There is a ball valve located at the bottom of the filter cover that allows me to purge and backwash the filter. However, when the filter is plugged or lightly caked with clay or driller's mud, backwashing will not clean well enough. In this case, I need to remove the filter element in order to clean thoroughly.

 

[Reach4]

The Vu-Flow filter I'm currently using is basically the same as you have suggested. There is a ball valve located at the bottom of the filter cover that allows me to purge and backwash the filter.

I looked for a reference that said that the valve backwashes the screen/element, and I could not find that.

 

[TVL]

I looked for a reference that said that the valve backwashes the screen/element, and I could not find that.

Thanks again Reach for your follow-up!

1- I'm still learning and you have brought something to my attention that I have obviously overlooked. The Vu-Flow filter that I'm using, and most likely all of their spin down filters, do not appear to have the ability to backwash the filter screen .............. only flush out any accumulated sediment. The direction of water flow will ALWAYS be through the inlet, no matter if I'm pumping normally OR if I've opened the ball valve at the bottom of the filter to clean out any accumulated sediment. Dag gummit!

2- I'm assuming and you can verify, the TwistIIClean filter actually reverses the direction of water flow when the valve is twisted in the appropriate direction. This then forces water from the inside of the filter to the outside which will effectively dislodge any sand, sediment, etc. and also purges the contents of the filter bowl.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

 

[Reach4]

I'm assuming and you can verify, the TwistIIClean filter actually reverses the direction of water flow when the valve is twisted in the appropriate direction.

I verify.

Note that Twist II Clean has a 100 PSI max pressure, which is normally plenty. The one linked to in #28, has a higher limit, and also runs water backwards thru the element.

Also, you would probably get less sediment if you were to raise the pump and/or add a flow inducer shroud. One possibility is that the intake to the pump is raising turbulance at the slots. The flow inducer would reduce velocities at the slots. You numbers at the beginning of the thread seem to indicate that you could raise the pump significantly.

Also, I don't think you have tried the suggested development by running the water wide open onto the ground. That may get the finer stuff washed through, and larger grains may reach the slots... where they hold back the finer stuff then. Maybe read back thru the thread again.

 

[TVL]

I verify.
Also, you would probably get less sediment if you were to raise the pump and/or add a flow inducer shroud.

Also, I don't think you have tried the suggested development by running the water wide open onto the ground

With a 4 inch well, I don't have the option to use a shroud. I still don't see how raising the pump will help, but I'm willing!!!! If sand is in the well, how does raising it help?

And on further development ................ I have run at full flow at the well head for a while, but my pump is only capable of about 14.5 gallons per minute. It was suggested to use a larger pump, but I don't have access to one.

NOTE: you also mentioned that the "STD" TwistIIClean was for pressures below 100 PSI. Unless something were to go wrong, my switch is set to cut off at 60 PSI. I don't know if the pump can even develop 100 PSI if the switch were to fail??? Anyway, in that case, an under rated filter would most likely be the least of my worries at that point.

 

[TVL]

Reach or anyone else that can provide an answer:

After reading Reach's comments, I'm thinking I would like to change out the Vu-Flow Spin down filter for the Twist to Clean filter by Lakos. The Lakos filter appears to be much better at backwashing the filter element.

However, there might be an issue. From what I've read thus far, I don't see that the Lakos filter has the spin down capability I desperately need to allow sand & sediment to settle to the bottom of the enclosure and not be captured by the filter element. Am I wrong or is this a downside to their filter?

 

[Reach4]

With a 4 inch well, I don't have the option to use a shroud. I still don't see how raising the pump will help, but I'm willing!!!! If sand is in the well, how does raising it help?

I had missed that your casing was 4 inch. So you are right, no shroud.

Having the pump above the slots does a couple of things. It insures that the water passes the motor keeping the motor cooler. It keeps the intake from generating turbulence right by the slots. And it keeps sand from falling from above past the intake.

It was a pump person who suggested raising the pump.

I have run at full flow at the well head for a while, but my pump is only capable of about 14.5 gallons per minute.

I don't know how long that pumping should last. Maybe 48 hours.

The flow when you were running to the ground would be significantly higher than when you are pumping into 40 or 50 PSI, even with that same pump.

On spin-down.... http://www.lakos.com/downloads/literature/LS-brochures-English/LS-747_T2C_EndSpinDownHassles.pdf contrasts twist 2 clean with spin down. So we can infer that twist2clean is not a spin down. Question: could you run your existing filter without the filter element and get the centrifugal still? If so, what if you did that, and followed that unit with a twist2clean? I don't know. I have not used these, and only have read about them.

 

[TVL]

Thanks Reach!

1- You had stated: "Having the pump above the slots does a couple of things" - I have 40 feet of slotted PVC screen at the bottom of the well. In my situation, the static water level will not allow me to raise the pump high enough to be ABOVE the slotted PVC screen.

2- You also stated: "The flow when you were running to the ground would be significantly higher than when you are pumping into 40 or 50 PSI, even with that same pump" - Actually, when I ran the pump full open a few weeks back, it was disconnected at the well head and pumping freely. So, there was no pressure applied and the best the 1 HP pump could do at that depth was 14.5 GPM.

3- Your suggestion regarding using the spin down without the element followed with the Lakos may be a possibility.

Thanks again!