4" Submersible Replacement and Sand Questions

[TJanak]

I've got several questions so I'll try to ask things in order. Bought a piece of property near Rockport, TX that has several 4" PVC wells. After the hurricane but before I bought it everything was pulled and jetted. One well is apparently bad (makes less than 5 GPM when jetted, was 40+ originally) so the pump was left out. I have to believe this failure was unrelated to the storm but nonetheless. On the second well the pump was stuck when pulled. Rope, wire and poly drop pipe were broken pulling the pump so I don't know if the rope broke first and stuck the pump or what exactly happened. Either way, it jetted fine and the well driller says we are good to go back with another pump. Picture of the now bad pump that came out of this well is attached.

What is the black plastic thing on the bottom of the motor? Previous owner and the well driller says the well makes some sand so they had a steel settling tank after the pressure tank and drained off the sand periodically. Would this on the motor have something to do with sand/water flow/etc?

So now I have a good pump that came out of the bad (5 GPM) well that I'd like to put into the good well. I know these are not the best brand pumps but I'm trying to get by for now without spending much money. Eventually I'd like to have a proper 20+ GPM well with no sand, but that will have to wait. Both pumps have the same model number so I'm assuming the pump end is the same. They appear to have different motors but both 1/2 HP with nearly identical amp ratings.
Good pump pictures attached.

Forgot to mention wells are about 180', not sure on static level or where the pumps were set. I can measure the broken pipe and wire to get a good idea.

Any reason I can't use this pump in the good "sandy" well? What about reusing the poly pipe and wire? Any other things I need to be cautious or aware of? I've done this before but it's been years and on less than 100' wells.

More questions likely to come but that's enough incoherent thoughts for now. Haven't been on this forum in years and I really miss it.

Thanks,
Travis

 

[Reach4]

Any reason I can't use this pump in the good "sandy" well? What about reusing the poly pipe and wire? Any other things I need to be cautious or aware of? I've done this before but it's been years and on less than 100' wells.

How big is the well ID, 5 inch?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TJanak]

4"

 

[Reach4]

4"

Ahh... I guess you said that originally. I was wondering if there was room for a flow inducer. The answer is no.

50c31112g8 has a 12g8 pump end... 12 gpm, 8 stage. The OD is 3.75 inches. http://documentlibrary.xylemappliedwater.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/22/files/2012/07/BRJGRIZZ-R3.pdf

I don't know if you should reuse. If you do, it is usually recommended to not have a safety rope, but instead use the pipe to pull the pump.

 

[Valveman]

The bottom picture has a 3 wire motor with a capacitor start control box. The upper picture looks like a 2 wire motor, which would mean there is a capacitor in that bottom housing on the motor. Three wire motors will have more starting torque, which is helpful in sandy applications.

 

[Texas Wellman]

So on the 2nd well they were able to fish the pump out?

I would not use poly pipe or rope. Use either galvanized steel pipe or sch 120 or sch 80 pvc with stainless couplings. That way when the pump gets stuck again you can use much more force when pulling.

 

[TJanak]

Yes, they got the pumps out of both wells. The pump that was stuck in the second well is the first picture with the black plastic piece on the bottom of the motor.

The local well guys use the threaded schedule 80 with PVC couplings, not stainless.

Cary, didn't you recommend covering the metal fitting on top of the pump with electrical tape to prevent it from corroding and failing? Or was that only with galvanized drop pipe?

 

[Valveman]

Yes, they got the pumps out of both wells. The pump that was stuck in the second well is the first picture with the black plastic piece on the bottom of the motor.

The local well guys use the threaded schedule 80 with PVC couplings, not stainless.

Cary, didn't you recommend covering the metal fitting on top of the pump with electrical tape to prevent it from corroding and failing? Or was that only with galvanized drop pipe?

A chain is only as strong as it weakest link. Use metal couplings on the sch 80 PVC pipe.

And yes any metal down the well that is not Brass or Stainless Steel should be covered with electric tape.

 

[Craigpump]

Yes, they got the pumps out of both wells. The pump that was stuck in the second well is the first picture with the black plastic piece on the bottom of the motor.

The local well guys use the threaded schedule 80 with PVC couplings, not stainless.

Cary, didn't you recommend covering the metal fitting on top of the pump with electrical tape to prevent it from corroding and failing? Or was that only with galvanized drop pipe?

Sch120 PVC couplings are going to be stronger than sch80 drop pipe. We routinely set pumps at 700' with sch 80 PVC with sch 120 PVC couplings.

 

[TJanak]

Alright, did some work today. Cary, you were right, the first picture above of the bad pump looks to be a two wire pump and it looks like a resin material in the bottom of that black plastic below the motor, so probably a capacitor sealed up in there.

Hooked up the good pump to my generator and set the pump in a barrel of water. Ran for 20-30 seconds and cut out. Thought it was my generator breaker but didn't appear to be (and shouldn't be, plenty amps). Let it sit a while and tried again with the same result. So pumped twice but only for 20-30 seconds and cut out. Some type of protection in the motor or control box? Ohmed the motor through the 100" of wire and was close to the spec in the control box. Ohmed the relay in the box and reading was way off or really couldn't get a good reading. I'm thinking i may need a new control box. Not sure how long this one's been sitting out in the weather anyways. I guess since the storm in August. Thoughts?

Also, why do 4 wires from the pump splice into three just above the motor? See the third picture. So only three wires coming into the control box from the pump, attached to the red, yellow, black terminals. Shoudn't I have a ground from the motor to the control box? Didn't unwrap the splice to see which two are merged into one.

 

[Reach4]

Shoudn't I have a ground from the motor to the control box?

It was not always the norm to run a ground wire to the pump. I think they don't require you to run a ground to a pump that was already wired without a ground, even if you replace the pump. I expect the green wire is insulated (not connected) under the tape, and not spliced in.

I am not a pro.

 

[Valveman]

When they replaced the 2 wire pump with the 3 wire pump, they used the same 3 conductor wire. You need the fourth wire to made a 3 wire pump up to code, but it will work fine without the ground wire.

I would not give up until I tried a new control box. If the start relay is not kicking the capacitor out of circuit, it will trip the overload in the motor after 10-30 seconds.

 

[TJanak]

Got a new control box and will try it tomorrow.

Picking up threaded schedule 80 this morning and steel couplers. Run them together dry? I assume you can use pipe wrenches on this? Never used threaded pvc expect for the little male adapters, etc.

Tape or pipe dope on the pvc at the brass reducer bushing in the pump?

Previous owner ran a galv tank for settling sand. Not sure how well that worked, but would you plumb that after the pressure tanks or before? Bladder/diaphragm pressure tanks.

Thanks

 

[Texas Wellman]

Sand tank goes first. In the middle hole and out the top.

You can run the sch 80 dry or apply a very small amount of rector seal no 5. Don't get crazy tightening down. You don't use a safety rope FYI. Use a plate with a notch for the pipe and a good pair of vise grips to hold it from dropping. You can actually make everything up on the ground and run it in.

Good luck!

 

[TJanak]

Thank you.

Pressure switch nearest to the first pressure tank then with the sand tank first?

 

[LLigetfa]

How many pressure tanks are there? If more than one then the pressure switch should be nearest the tank furthest from the pump.

 

[Valveman]

The sand tank is not a pressure tank. Switch goes on pressure tank. I like to run pvc to metal dry. Pipe wrench until it pops once and quit.

 

[TJanak]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for all of the help. New control box fixed my pump problem, so screwed on 100' of pvc and down she went. Didn't get to wire up to the panel but cycled a couple times on the generator and seemed to work fine. At least I have water now. We'll see if the pressure holds. I can say I'm not a fan of the plastic threads on the pump, makes me uneasy. Cheap pump I guess. This isn't a permanent installation, just needed water until I get things up and going.

Please ignore the mess, previous owners did almost no cleanup after the hurricane in August.

 

[Reach4]

Looks very good.

You will want to protect the PVC and fiberglass tanks from long term UV. Find or make a cover for the tanks, and cover or paint the PVC. Maybe use black plastic drum liners, held in place with cord or tape, over the tanks?

I presume there is a blowout valve down low to let you blow the settled sand out.

Maybe drive a post next to that spigot and attach in a low-stress way to the spigot area to take stresses in case somebody hooks a hose to that spigot.