4 conductor to 3 conductor

[Mojoe]

I realize the: twice the volts = half the amps part. It just seems to me that it would draw more if it was turned up.

 

[DonL]

I realize the: twice the volts = half the amps part. It just seems to me that it would draw more if it was turned up.

You are correct. Makes a lot more heat also, great for welding.

That unit uses a Switching supply I do believe. Let us know how well it works when you fire it up. THD may be a factor.

That is a nice welder.


Have fun.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mojoe]

Thanks, I was just trying to understand the last part of post #15. Duty cycle with welders usually relates to the percentage of time it can weld before overheating and shutting down.

 

[DonL]

Thanks, I was just trying to understand the last part of post #15. Duty cycle with welders usually relates to the percentage of time it can weld before overheating and shutting down.

From what I can tell, JW was saying that the generator needs to supply the Max Amps that the Welder requires.

The power requirement can not be de-rated using Duty Cycle.


What would really be nice, is a multi fuel welder with 120 and 240 outlets and battery charger for electric start.

 

[Reach4]

http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx has a nice set of NEMA socket configurations with neutrals marked with a W. http://www.powerstream.com/NEMA-plug-reference.htm shows the plugs.

 

[Mojoe]

DonL, The Miller Bobcat 250 [gas only] is almost 4K and the Mig wire feeder is another 1500 - 2000. A diesel version is around 8K and up. Check out cyberweld.com. It's only money. I tried to justify it when I got the 211 as it could be a stand by generator for the house also but it's just one more small engine to maintain and for the mice to chew the wires on. I don't do welding for a job, I just fix my own stuff. I already have two portable generators and I bought an old military surplus generator on a trailer at auction for $300.00 4 cyl gas motor. It's been sitting around and the gas is bad but the motor isn't stuck so it should run again. Everyone needs another project. I don't remember the size but it's 3 phase. One of these days I'll pick your brain on that one.

 

[Mojoe]

Reach4, I don't know if your illustration is supposed to represent a plug or the look on my face after I plug it in. Mine is the one right under that one in the list: 6-50. Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

So clearly G and not White neutral. Maybe the 6-50 would be what you look like when you bump your head:

 

[Mojoe]

- or after I got flashed when I pulled the trigger on the welder with the mask up.

 

[Mojoe]

Follow up - Here is what I found out. - here's a post with miller response.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...=211+generator

In an older post I was asking about using gen power/ THD with the 211. Thought I would share what Miller said about it.

" The Millermatic 211 is pretty forgiving when it comes to input power. As long as you have a generator that is providing roughly 60Hz power and at least 7,000 watts continuous 230 volt power the unit will be fine."

I think the 6500 watts would probably have been adequate for the 1/8" and thinner metal I was dealing with but I don't like cutting corners. There are enough things to worry about when doing everything right. Since I had to pull the muffler off the machine anyway, I pulled the cover off their panel, found a 30 amp breaker for a stove that was seldom used and wired up a temporary outlet/extension cord for the welder and ran it out into the garage. Everything worked out fine but not with a generator. Thanks to everyone for the input and info.

 

[DonL]

Sounds like you are about 1000 watts short to run the welder.

The generator that you have is rated at 6000 watts according to the manual. 6500 Watts Max Surge.


Have Fun.

 

[Speedy Petey]

IF you were hard wiring it, you would connect the wires to the two hots AND THE NEUTRAL, not the ground. Three wire cords connect the ground and neutral together. IF you rewire it for 4 wires, you disconnect the internal ground from the third (neutral) lug and then connect it to the fourth wire (ground).

NO, no, no!
THis is ONLY true in OLDER household ranges and Dryers. NEVER for something like a welder or other pieces of equipment.
PLEASE be careful with giving electrical advice such as this.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The neutral needs to be on a Current carrying conductor, not the ground wire. That welder uses 120 for the wire feed even tho it runs the Output transformer on 240V for the welding wire.

Can you tell me where you are getting this???
I see that it can be wired for 120V OR 240V. I see NO WHERE that it states the wire feed runs on 120V.

 

[DonL]

Can you tell me where you are getting this???
I see that it can be wired for 120V OR 240V. I see NO WHERE that it states the wire feed runs on 120V.

The Wire Feed Speed Controller, looks like it runs off of a 120V step down isolation transformer. As near as I could tell.

I was looking at the internal wiring schematic.

 

[Speedy Petey]

The Wire Feed Speed Controller, looks like it runs off of a 120V step down isolation transformer. As near as I could tell.

I was looking at the internal wiring schematic.

WHY?? All that matters is the input voltage rating. What they do with that voltage once inside the machine should be none of our concern. UL already worried about that.

 

[DonL]

I think it is like that because Arc Welders make a lot of noise on the AC line.

If they use a separate isolated transformer they have a better chance of filtering the AC noise and RFI that the arc produces.

That is just my guess. But would be a good design practice.

It is important for the Wire Feeder to run at a constant and smooth rate, or your weld can suck, and is not smooth like it should be.


Have Fun.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I think it is like that because Arc Welders make a lot of noise on the AC line.

If they use a separate isolated transformer they have a better chance of filtering the AC noise and RFI that the arc produces.

That is just my guess. But would be a good design practice.

It is important for the Wire Feeder to run at a constant and smooth rate, or your weld can suck, and is not smooth like it should be.


Have Fun.

Again, what AT ALL does this have to do with a residential installation??
Does it call for a 240V feed? Then feed it with 240V. Same for 120V.
I'm not sure why this is even being questioned.

 

[DonL]

Again, what AT ALL does this have to do with a residential installation??
Does it call for a 240V feed? Then feed it with 240V. Same for 120V.
I'm not sure why this is even being questioned.

Because You asked ?

I just was stating what I found.

That welder will not work on a normal residential 120V outlet, You should know better. It does good to work on a residential 240 V outlet, and that is required to make good welds. My guess is that you have never used a wire feed welder.

Please check the schematic for yourself, and correct me if I am wrong.

I can take it, as well as dish it out.


I am a big Boy.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I just was stating what I found.

That welder will not work on a normal residential 120V outlet, You should know better. It does good to work on a residential 240 V outlet, and that is required to make good welds.

Hmmm...the specs say differently. Do you know something the manufacturer does not?

My guess is that you have never used a wire feed welder.

Funny, I own a stick welder as well as a Millermatic 175. What does that have to do with it???

Please check the schematic for yourself, and correct me if I am wrong.

I Did. I shows both 120V input or 230V input. Do you not see that?

I'll help you along. See the top of page 2: http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/DC12-54.pdf

 

[DonL]

Hmmm...the specs say differently. Do you know something the manufacturer does not?


Funny, I own a stick welder as well as a Millermatic 175. What does that have to do with it???


I Did. I shows both 120V input or 230V input. Do you not see that?

I'll help you along. See the top of page 2: http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/spec_sheets/DC12-54.pdf

I do not even need to look at a manual, been there done that.

P = I X E. You can work it backward if you like.

30 amps at 240 V is 60 amps at 120V.

Where can you even buy a 60 Amp 120V outlet ?

Welders buy wire feed welders that operate on 240V for a reason.

Running any welder on 120V just don't get it.

You can ask the OP, If you dought me.

You can run a stick welder off of a 12V battery, But good luck runing a wire feed on one.


Have Fun.