2 vs 3 wire well pump

[illrohan]

pulled it... there's a slice in the line about two inches long. I guess that's where I'm losing press. from. That cast fitting with the schrader was a check valve that was failing sporadically. I replaced the check valve.
So this is the big question now...
Do I need to replace 320' of poly or can I use a brass coupling and hose clamps?

 

[Reach4]

pulled it... there's a slice in the line about two inches long. I guess that's where I'm losing press. from. That cast fitting with the schrader was a check valve that was failing sporadically. I replaced the check valve.
So this is the big question now...
Do I need to replace 320' of poly or can I use a brass coupling and hose clamps?

The picture is not clear. I was thinking that was a picture of a torque arrestor.

You normally don't want a check valve topside if you are using a diaphragm pressure tank. Those are needed if you are using a galvanized tank, and you have a valve that admits air into the top part of the piping every cycle. I expect that failed part was part of such a system. I wonder if that failed check valve failed closed, and the pump therefore deadheaded. The pump heated up, and the poly failed due to the pressure and heat combination. The pump has a check valve usually, and some like to put an additional one near the pump.

There are electronic devices that can shut down a pump if it deadheads or if it runs out of water. If you had not had that blocked topside checkvalve, maybe the pump would have been shut off by the pressure switch.

I don't know if you should just cut that back or if you should bring in another piece of poly. Stainless barbed fittings are preferred by some. They make some that are extra long and they take 3 worm gear clamps on each side rather than the normal two.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Craigpump]

How heavy is the pipe? It's pretty rare to see 160 or 200 psi poly split.

Couple it together, if the split is just a few feet above the pump, cut it off and put it back in.

 

[illrohan]

How heavy is the pipe? It's pretty rare to see 160 or 200 psi poly split.

Couple it together, if the split is just a few feet above the pump, cut it off and put it back in.

estimated... I'd say it's a good 50/60 ft above the pump, possibly a bit more but not much. too far to couple?

 

[illrohan]

I'll send a clearer picture tomorrow

 

[Reach4]

Send clear pictures of the two labels on the pump (motor and pump end), or tell us what the make, models, and date codes are.

 

[Craigpump]

If it's 100 or 125 or really old 160 pound pipe it'll probably split again someplace. But, when it was out last time it may have been run over by a car and compromised in that spot. Hard to say....

160 pound pipe will cost you probably about .50 a foot, that will buy a lot of piece of mind.

 

[Reach4]

If it's 100 or 125 or really old 160 pound pipe it'll probably split again someplace. But, when it was out last time it may have been run over by a car and compromised in that spot. Hard to say....

If we presume the water could be 340 ft down, that is 147.4 PSI. If we presume the pump shuts down at 60 PSI, that is 207.4 PSI. Maybe the water never gets down that far.

 

[illrohan]

isn't it recommended that an additional check valve be installed if the drop pipe is more that 200'?

 

[Valveman]

Extra check valves are recommended by people who make and sell check valves. But that extra check on top was probably what caused the split in the pipe. Tremendous water hammer happens between those two checks, which will put more pressure on the pipe than the pump can even build.

Make sure you have a good check on the pump, get rid if that extra check valve, and put in some new 160# or 200# poly. Burst pressure of poly pipe is 2-5 times the rated pressure, so unless the pipe was run over or something, that extra check valve caused the split.

 

[illrohan]

Extra check valves are recommended by people who make and sell check valves. But that extra check on top was probably what caused the split in the pipe. Tremendous water hammer happens between those two checks, which will put more pressure on the pipe than the pump can even build.

Make sure you have a good check on the pump, get rid if that extra check valve, and put in some new 160# or 200# poly. Burst pressure of poly pipe is 2-5 times the rated pressure, so unless the pipe was run over or something, that extra check valve caused the split.

It does actually look like the pipe is somewhat flattened a bit where the split is but I will remove the extra check up top. Do Franklin pumps have built in check valves?

 

[Valveman]

Nearly all small submersibles come with check valves. If it doesn't have a good one built in, screw one to the top of the pump.

 

[illrohan]

btw, it does say in the franklin pump manual that check valves should be installed every 100'.

 

[illrohan]

 

[illrohan]

 

[illrohan]

old built in check

 

[illrohan]

new built in check. is this good enough or should I install another right on top of the pump?

 

[Valveman]

btw, it does say in the franklin pump manual that check valves should be installed every 100'.

Yeah it is one of those things that only works on paper. They don't want the water reversing in the pump so it is the old "if one check valve is good then two should be better" mentality. But they also say to not start the pump against a negative pressure and not to allow negative pressure between any two check valves. Well the only way to accomplish that is not to have more than one check valve. Statements in favor of multiple check valves always contradict themselves if you know what to listen for.

The plastic head and check valve in that new pump look kind of cheesy to me. I would add a good brass MXF spring loaded check valve to the top of the pump. Is that new pump a Franklin?

 

[illrohan]

Yeah it is one of those things that only works on paper. They don't want the water reversing in the pump so it is the old "if one check valve is good then two should be better" mentality. But they also say to not start the pump against a negative pressure and not to allow negative pressure between any two check valves. Well the only way to accomplish that is not to have more than one check valve. Statements in favor of multiple check valves always contradict themselves if you know what to listen for.

The plastic head and check valve in that new pump look kind of cheesy to me. I would add a good brass MXF spring loaded check valve to the top of the pump. Is that new pump a Franklin?

it is. installing brs spring check now