1920 shower valve refurbishment

[Ptspringer]

Hi, I live in a 1920's California Bungalow. The bathtub with overhead shower each have two hot and cold water valves behind a 4x6 inch subway tile wall. There is an additional matching handle that is the tub stopper. All original plumbing. I had leaking/dripping tub faucets and was able to find original valve stem replacements which were Speakman 4 inch square broach which i ordered here:

https://realdealsupply.com/speakman-hot-stem-replacement-414781-p108152.html

One of the valve seats (Bibb seats) is cracked and the source of the leak, so I need to replace the seat. The speakman stem end with the rubber seal is 7/8" inch OD, and 1 1/8 " OD where it threads at the wall . The seat is too far deep in the wall to measure it's OD or ID accurately.

How would I find replacement seats for these valves?

Thank you!

 

[hj]

You HAVE to remove it and find a new replacement with the same o.d., AND t.p.i., AND "profile"/shape.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Ptspringer]

You HAVE to remove it and find a new replacement with the same o.d., AND t.p.i., AND "profile"/shape.

Yikes!

I was hoping the 1920's Speakman valves might have had a standard so I could have the seat on hand. I'm worried that I'll damage it upon removal and then be stuck without water until I can find a replacement. Trying my seat wrench with various squares, tapers, and hexes, found no easy purchase. I'm getting an easy out tool to facilitate the removal, but worried it will prevent reusing the seat until the replacement arrives.

 

[hj]

The DID have a "standard" but it would have been lost during the depression. In fact, some valves at that time did NOT have removable seats. You had to "regrind" the seat to renew it.

 

[Jadnashua]

Manufacturers tend to carry parts for maybe 10-years...longer if it was a common item and used over a longer time. Anything nearly 100-years old, good luck! AFter that length of time, most people have remodeled more than once, and there's no need for the older parts.

 

[Ptspringer]

OK, I did try dressing the bearing surface, but I think the seat is cracked. I'll try to remove the seat when my easy-out tool arrives. If I can't then I'll drill and tap it to fit available seats.

 

[Ptspringer]

OK, I removed the old seat with the easy-out tool shown in the photo. I had several types of 5/8 valve seats on hand, and the new one shown in the photo matched the TPI, but the OD was slightly smaller 0.646 " for the original, and 0.615" for the new one. The new one is for a speakman valve, and it did manage to thread in fine, even though it is undersized. I'll look for an exact replacement, slightly bigger than 5/8 and 24 TPI. The other photo shows the divot in the old seat that resulted in a leak.

 

[DIYorBust]

Did you ever find a match? I have something very similar. I ended up grinding a lot of material off the old seat and it did the job, for now. But I'd like to have some of these on hand. I obtained these https://www.supplyhouse.com/Brasscraft-SCB1667X-5-8-x-24-Thread-Bibb-Seat-for-Speakman-10-per-bag, they seem to fit but the aperture is definitely smaller than the original, and I already limited pressure in that line for other reasons. Thanks in advance for your remarks.

 

[Marlinman]

The seat you need is .637 diameter. The 5/8 equals .625. Kissler and company makes these under part # 55-7046. You should be able to find on line or a plumbing parts house is most likely to set up to buy from them. They are a manufacturer and do not sell to the public. It is not uncommon to find parts in excess of 100 years old. Many plumbers are shy about servicing a valve this old. You just need to know where to look for parts and ask neighbors with simular aged houses what they did. Removing this valve system is the last thing I would do.

 

[DIYorBust]

Thank Marlin. That part looks exactly right. I wish they weren't 6 bucks a pop, but it's certainly better than not having them available. So I have four of these faucets, and only one seems to be leaking. Would it be advisable to rebuild all the stems now or wait until they leak? If yes on on the rebuild, should the seats be replaced while I'm in there or leave well enough alone? Thanks!

 

[DIYorBust]

So after experimenting a little, I think the problem is due to the thread in the valve body being warn out, so the valve seat is not sealing well. Do you know if there's a replacement body that matches these still available? Fortunately our 1920s plumber was thoughtful enough to leave an access panel from behind so replacement of the valve body is possible without damage to the tilework. Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

So after experimenting a little, I think the problem is due to the thread in the valve body being warn out, so the valve seat is not sealing well.

Try getting some non-cheap PTFE tape... Oatey Pink or Oatey Yellow, or maybe other yellow (suitable for gas and more). Put as many wraps as as practical (I am thinking 7 or so) on the new seat. Also use pipe dope. Screw the seat in. See if that seals.

I am not a plumber.

 

[DIYorBust]

Thanks, used Blue Monster tape and Megaloc, still drip drip drip. I think the last person to work on this got away with that solution but I may be past that at this point. I may mess around with it some more, but I'd like to identify the part since it may take several weeks to order. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Reach4]

I can't help you with finding the part you are looking for. If you post a photo of the valve body through the access panel, there could be a chance somebody would recognize.

I suspect that the valve seat that was put in there may not have had the right thread, but is a little undersized.

 

[MACPLUMB]

CONTACT M-ONE IN SALT LAKE CITY, UT THEY SPECIALIST IN OLD ODD BALL FIXTURES, 800-596-9223
OR 801-596-2500

 

[DIYorBust]

Thanks I'll try M-one on Monday. Interesting idea that the existing part may be the wrong size, I am trying to obtain a correct replacement part. Supposing that doesn't fit, do you think it would be possible to tap it out to the next size up and reduce it with a bushing? I feel like the odds of success are low but if I'm going to end up replacing it anyway...

 

[DIYorBust]

So I think what I have is the S-1050 Diamond Built in Shower Valve with Binder Nut. Page 3 here http://www.kissler.com/OEM_PDF/SPEAKMAN.pdf . So far I'm not optimistic I can find this part, but if you know where I can find this valve body I'd be greatful. If not, is there another valve system that might work with my trim? Thanks! Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[DIYorBust]

Ok, it looks like the 6 dollar Kissler seat was the ticket! Seems possible that the previous repair used another valve seat as there is one that is virtually identical but just a touch smaller. I can't really tell just by appearance. Thanks Marlinman and Reach4, I don't think I ever would have figured this one out!

 

[DIYorBust]

Hi Folks, appreciate all the help I got here. One more question, I notice with the new valve stems I have, the handle does not fit as snuggly as with the old set. It's not coming off, but can wiggle a little. Is there a quick fix for this? Would plumbers tape on the splines help?

Thanks!

DoB