$12,500 well question

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tinkerdan

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Professional well digger dug a well for new home last June ($10,000). 360 total depth/ 100 ft to bedrock. Steel cased from surface to 260 ft. It ran muddy for weeks with continual pumping as well as intermittent pumping onto the ground. Finally cleared (short term). When water is now turned on, it will pump clear for about 2 minutes, then run muddy (ranging anywhere from mud-tinged to dark) for about 2 minutes, and start clearing up until it eventually runs crystal clear. Professional well driller pulled pump up. Didn't help. Then suggested we go 20 more feet deeper and case 100 add'l ft. We did and he raised the pump again, he says we now have a yield of 10-12 GPM. ($2,500 more). Well still runs as previously mentioned. Well driller now says he can add a filter to filter mud out into our private septic system (at an additional cost). Am I throwing money into a muddy well??? Should I just cut my loss and have a new well drilled. Professional well driller says he doesn't know why it is doing this and can't do anything else.
Thanks!! Stumped in Virginia.
 

tinkerdan

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The idea did not sound like a good prospect for our septic system. Thanks.
 

Gary Slusser

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If you take a glass of this water and let it sit, does it go clear, and if so how long does it take?

Can you post a picture of a glass of it and after it sits?

Have you had any water tests like iron? If not you should.

Is there any galvanized pipe in the well or underground or at the pressure tank and is the pressure tank galvanized?

Is the water like this at all faucets or just one?
 

Cass

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The mud...over time...will ruin the septic system...does the exact problem senario happen if pumps water from the well head instead of letting it run to the house...
 

Speedbump

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You could call a couple other pro's and ask their advice. They would know the area much better than we would. Maybe this is common, maybe not.

You need to know what this discoloration is before you start filtering it.

bob...
 

tinkerdan

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Reply to several suggestions. (Thanks!)

This well is not connected to the house yet as it is still under construction. Collected water today. Ran crystal clear for about 3 minutes, then muddy for about 2 minutes. We have had this water tested at a lab for iron. It does contain an amount of iron that falls within acceptable limits. The lab said that nearly all water from this region will contain some iron.
Water immediately after being drawn:

user32036_pic88_1234311698_thumb.jpg

With the water setting 4 hours, there is settling on the bottom with what looks like the red dirt from that area.
4 Hours of setting:

4 hours later.JPG

It ran muddy for about 2 minutes and then started to clear, taking about 30 minutes to get back to crystal clear.

There are no galvanized pipes and no pressure tank yet. I would not want to run this muddy water into the house. I did call another well driller who said to raise the pump which our driller did. No difference.
The down hole camera sounds good. Not sure anyone in our area has one though.
 

Masterpumpman

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Cascading water?

This could be cascading water coming in the well from above. Either a poor seal at the bottom of the casing or less than likely an upper formation below the casing producing the muddy water. Sometimes water entering the well from above cascades down the wall carrying the drilled mud or dust (if drilled with air) into the water.

A down hole camera would be a good idea to possibly trace the problem.

I feel that drilling deeper or raising the pump was a waste of time and money. . . however I wasn't there either.

I would continue to pump the well until it is pretty clear, then shut it down to let it recover, then do it again. Do this for several days and see if there is any improvement or if it gets worse.

I'm in Virginia Beach and wish we could talk but I don't think that is koshure to the rules!
 

tinkerdan

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Thank you, Porky. What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Can this problem be fixed if it is cascading water or a poor seal? The house is located on the other end of Virginia from you. It seems that my driller doesn't want to solve the problem except to filter the mud into the septic system.
 

tinkerdan

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If this is cascading water or a poor seal, is it possible that it will eventually clear up?
 

Gary Slusser

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Acceptable levels? Any amount of iron over .3 ppm causes rust stains.

Water containing oxidized ferric iron (rust) can be colored yellowish to tan to orangish to redish brown (looks a lot like.... mud!)

This looks like red water iron to me, not mud. So exactly how much iron is supposed to be in this water?

If I'm right, there is no 'fixing' the well and if you get into cameras and the seal etc. you'll be throwing more money away. I would have no trouble clarifying this water of the rust, or mud, and removing any clear water iron left in the water.

I believe you have iron that oxidizes in the water column in the well after running the water, when water is not used and then eventually that dirty water goes clear and when you shut off the water, the water in the pump and pipe is clear of rust. That's why for the first minute or so the water is clear and then goes rusty as the water column water is pumped to the surface. If you are running water out a faucet at the well etc., the depressurization and aeration in the well will oxidize iron in the water and you have the type of iron that oxidizes easily and enough to turn the water rusty. Then it runs clear and you shut off the water. Does that make sense?

As to "putting this mud in the septic", there isn't enough of it to worry about it in the discharge water from an automatic back washed filter and if it is iron, it doesn't harm a septic tank type system because it is dispersed and diluted in the 1000+ gallons of water in the tank and as you see. it mostly settles in time. And a filter will only backwash every 4-6 days with like 30-40 gallons of rusty water. You are not the first to have this type iron problem.
 

tinkerdan

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Would this amount of iron completely settle to the bottom of the bottle (which is the case this morning)? Possibly I should have this "dirty" sample tested for iron content. The sample earlier tested was not this "dirty." Also, for clarification, only the water in the column is oxidizing? Because the water runs clear for about 2 or 3 min., then dirty for about 1 to 2 min., then clear.
Thanks.
 
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tinkerdan

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Iron test result- 0.31
Hardness- 207
Been running water 4 to 5 times a week for duration of 3 to 8 hours.
Time between "uses"- at least 24 hours - sometimes 4 or 5 days between "uses"
Just shook bottle. Will observe for time to settle.
 

Sammyhydro11

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Tinkerdan, what you need to do is focus first on the source of your problem which is the well. Water treatment should not be considered until you know for a fact that nothing ca be done to your well to rectify the problem. A down hole camera inspection is money well spent as it will clarify where the source of the contaminant is coming from. I deal with this issue quite frequently and in most cases the problem is coming from a bad seal where the end of the casing sits in the rock. Now if you do in fact have this camera inspection done and it is found that you have water getting by that seal, then a jaswell seal is your solution. Take your time and get this resolved properly. Keep calling someone in your area that has a down hole camera.

You should also post a more detailed water analysis which would include PH. A deep well with water having low ph, is an indication that you have some water above the bedrock getting into the bore hole.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com
 
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tinkerdan

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Thanks, Gary. The water testing was done by a friend who owns an environmental testing lab. He only tested for iron (which was our question at the time) and hardness. Looks like I need to follow your advice and get a more detailed analysis before proceeding. Your post makes a lot of sense and is appreciated. You're right. I know little about wells but am learning.
 

Sammyhydro11

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I would first look into the integrity of the well before spending anymore time or money on a water analysis but a low ph result would indicate that water might be getting into the bore hole from above the rock.

sammy

www.tylerwell-pump.com
 

cableguy

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Professional well digger dug a well for new home last June ($10,000). 360 total depth/ 100 ft to bedrock. Steel cased from surface to 260 ft. It ran muddy for weeks with continual pumping as well as intermittent pumping onto the ground. Finally cleared (short term). When water is now turned on, it will pump clear for about 2 minutes, then run muddy (ranging anywhere from mud-tinged to dark) for about 2 minutes, and start clearing up until it eventually runs crystal clear. Professional well driller pulled pump up. Didn't help. Then suggested we go 20 more feet deeper and case 100 add'l ft. We did and he raised the pump again, he says we now have a yield of 10-12 GPM. ($2,500 more). Well still runs as previously mentioned. Well driller now says he can add a filter to filter mud out into our private septic system (at an additional cost). Am I throwing money into a muddy well??? Should I just cut my loss and have a new well drilled. Professional well driller says he doesn't know why it is doing this and can't do anything else.
Thanks!! Stumped in Virginia.

It would be helpful if you provided the well diameter, static water level, drop pipe size, diameter and length of pipe froim the well to house, and the gallons per minute you are pumping from the well.
 

Sammyhydro11

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Once the pumping water level drops below where that dirty water is coming in, it creates low pressure at that spot and that's when the the cloudy water can appear because the silt is dropping in the hole. I have seen this happen first hand with my down hole camera.

Seeing that well has been cased 160 feet beyond the top of bedrock would tell me that the bedrock is very unstable. Unless the driller got into some more stable bedrock, that casing might not have a good seal.

The customer also pointed out that the discoloration is similar to the red soil in the area.

sammy

www.tylerwellandpump.com
 
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