11.5" rough -- choosing Toto Carlyle II, Vespin II, or Carolina II

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Scribbles

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Hi everyone, we're doing a gut bath renovation and have discovered that the distance between finished wall and center of flange is 11.5". I've done as much math and homework as possible to figure out what's best but, being a total novice, have a few final questions. Please help!

I've read a bunch of threads in this forum (best website ever) and have investigated the specs to determine the clearance behind the tank for each model. A this stage, we're trying to choose between the Toto Carlyle II, Vespin II, and Carolina II toilets. Here's what I can figure, from the specs:
  • The Carlyle II and Vespin II both show 3/4" clearance behind the tank. Using the 12" Unifit adapter, that should give us 1/4" clearance (3/4" minus (12" minus 11.5")).
  • The Carolina II appears to have 1 3/8" clearance, which would give us 7/8" clearance once installed with the 12" rough-in.
  • We originally fell in love with the look of the Aquia II but w/ 1/2" clearance from tank to wall, it felt like a gamble to leave ourselves zero breathing room.
My contractor isn't fully convinced by the math/specs and suggested we buy both the 12" and 10" Unifit adapters. That way, if we can't make it work at the 12" rough, we can use the 10".
  • Our preference is leaving as small a gap between the tank and wall as possible. Is it a reasonable likelihood that we'll have to go w/ the 10"? If so, we would have a 2 1/4" gap behind the tank with the Carlyle and Vespin, and 2 7/8" with the Carolina. That seems like A LOT!
  • For us, the only reason to go with the Carolina II is that it has the most clearance behind the tank and so the most "breathing room" to make a 12" configuration (where the gap is smaller than 10") work. However, I'm not basing the need for "breathing room" on any expertise...if it's nothing to worry about, I would much prefer the Carlyle and Vespin which would give us 1/4" left over once installed with the 12" rough.
One final question: do I need to worry about the placement of the shutoff valve? It is 5" from floor to valve, 5" from center of flange to valve, and about 2 3/8" in depth from the wall. I've read in Terry's post about the Unifit adapter that you need 5.5" with the first generation of these models. For the II, the specs show 11 3/4" wide skirted bases, so taking half, I think that means you need 5 7/8"? One of the workers on site said the line is easy to move -- is that true?

Any guidance is super appreciated. I've done a lot of homework but still feel a bit like I'm flying blind.
 
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Terry

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The skirted models do need more room for the shutoff to the left. They all fit at 11.5 if the shutoff is not in the way.
If they can move the shutoff, now is the time. While they are at it, 8" would be nice. The Carlyle has a better flush than the Carolina.
 

WJcandee

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The toilet automatically comes with a 12" unifit. So just get the toilet. You won't need the 10", but it's nice to know that it's a day away or less if push comes to shove, which it won't if the wall is plumb and the flange is where you expect it to be relative to the wall when all is said and done. And, yeah, give yourself the 8" from the centerline on the water supply, then it won't matter how high or low it is or how much it protrudes from the wall.

We have a Carlyle II and love it, for what it's worth. It actually feels smaller in the space than I expected it to; it doesn't dominate, which is actually good from my perspective. The Vespin II is also an excellent toilet, basically a skirted Drake II. It seems more prominent in a space than does the Carlyle II.
 

Reach4

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Is the wall plumb, or tilted away, or tilted forward? That can play a factor. When you use the level, try both sides of the level, in case the bubble is a little off.

You can also check the floor for level, although you can add shims to adjust that if you like.

The unifit can be mounted a little fore and aft too. The slots are bigger than the closet bolts.
 

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Thanks so much, everyone. Have I mentioned how much this forum rocks? All hail Terry and community.

We're going to move the shutoff ot 8" (one more day and it would have been too late!) and go with the Carlyle II (with the included 12" unifit). I haven't checked if the wall is plumb -- I will when I'm back onsite tomorrow. Fingers crossed, and thanks again.
 

Reach4

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What I would do is to put the uninstalled toilet with unifit in place with no wax or bolts. Position it as you like.

Reach through the side ports and put marks on the floor where the Unifit sits. More ink will be better, I think. Watch for parallax.

Then, when you lift the toilet, you can see where the Unifit will have to be to match your dry fitting.

You have to drill 4 holes for the Unifit. Drilling ceramic tile is hard, but drilling porcelain tile is very hard. If you are new to that, check it out. If you have LVT instead of ceramic/porcelain, you will have it easy.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/toto_unifit_3-jpg.27689/ shows my unconventional use of a unifit. That is a 12 inch Unifit with about a 13+ inch rough. The closet bolt holes I drilled are about 13 inches from the wall, even tho they look like about 12 in the photo. Parallax in photo.

One nice thing on the Unifit, you can shim at leisure.

I am not a pro. I put in the one Unifit.
 
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