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  1. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    That's a good point, and interesting to know that under torquing is a more common culprit of fire issues. I'm not sure all these guys use a torque wrench, though they're supposed to. For me, the concern is that without EMS, I could easily see 150A (64A EV charging + 50A duct heater + 40-50A hot...
  2. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    It sure seems like it. Based on that, in the event of a fire due to the conductor being undersized, do you believe I'd be at risk for insurance coverage, even if the county has informed me that the existing conductor is sufficient? You're probably not a legal expert, but curious how you are...
  3. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    It's a good point. Here is the scenario I presented: "Single family dwelling with 320A service. Meter enclosure (no disconnect) feeds two 200A main breaker panels. Load calculations show the 4/0 Al feeders between meter socket and the (2) 200A disconnects will see greater than 180A." So, I...
  4. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    The county came back today with the below statement. Clearly they feel confident in their interpretation. If I had a paid account with NFPA, I'd open a technical case, but that will cost me $175 for the membership, so I'll have to think if that's something I want to invest in. Certainly isn't...
  5. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    I read you loud and clear and will keep that present in my mind during discussions. That said, if the electrician did not run load calculations at time of service upgrade and sized the conductors for 180A, is that permitted?
  6. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    Thanks, Wayne. You've really been great to me - and I appreciate your support. Your explanation of 310.12(C)'s existence is excellent and crystal clear to me. I couldn't agree with you more about needing to read (and think) more carefully. I'll let you know what progress I can make with the...
  7. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    I am actually trying to get the electrician to upsize the 4/0 Al conductors to be what we believe would be compliant, as I don't think I should go hire a second electrician to do it. But... if I have a licensed electrician as well as the county electrical inspector telling me they are in...
  8. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    The issue is that the county is saying there is no need to ever go beyond 4/0, regardless of my load calculation or measured loads. So, I don't know if I just let that liability sit on the county and assume I'm fine up to 200A on the existing conductors, or if I try to convince the inspector...
  9. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    @wwhitney Last week I was finally able to have a conversation with the electrician who performed the service upgrade, and he was pretty adamant that the feeder conductors between meter socket and main disconnect should be 4/0 Al. His rational was that the last sentence of 310.12(B) reads "If no...
  10. Rossn

    Plumbed Coffee Makers (residential)

    Thanks. Definitely noted on the corrosiveness of the water with copper.
  11. Rossn

    Plumbed Coffee Makers (residential)

    Thanks, guys. Sounds like a drain is highly unlikely, and that was the part that would be a hassle, but need to happen now. She's working on picking out a couple options now, and looking like plumbing is nil and electrical isn’t anything special. Some of the ones I had looked at myself...
  12. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    That is true - I have it in writing, and all I need. Though I'm thinking more about how broader humanity is impacted. I'm only mentioning the below rant, as I'd value your below input if you think there is a valid NEC PI submittal, coupled with a reach out to Xcel senior management. I awoke...
  13. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    I think I've now dealt with 5 people at Xcel or their contractors that are not clear about it. You can hear it in their voice when talking to them. It seems that NEC and POCOs need to do something to add clarity. I awoke this morning thinking about that more... it seems like NEC should include a...
  14. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    I realize that is an odd number for a single EVSE. I don’t actually have any EVSE yet :) but, as a condition of the permit I have to pre-wire or put in conduit. Since EVSEs seem to be going through their own evolution now (single breaker pool, load sharing, energy mgmt, etc) and we are a year...
  15. Rossn

    Plumbed Coffee Makers (residential)

    Hoping you all can shed some very high level info on the topic of plumbed coffee makers for me. Admittedly, I'm not a coffee drinker, but my wife is. She doesn't have a plumbed coffee maker now, but as part of the remodel wants to be able to accommodate one in the future. She doesn't have one...
  16. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    Yes, have definitely seen p. 45, and at the same time have people at Xcel who are unclear on that or stating to the contrary. My load calc didn't include any additional VA for the continuous element of the EVSEs, and when I looked at the service entrance conductor capacity, it was also not...
  17. Rossn

    Residential Service Entrance Conductor Temperature Rating to Use for Capacity and 2017 NEC 310.15(B)(7)

    Hey Wayne (@wwhitney)! My POCO request has finally made it to a designer. They did some calcs and determined that the 25kVA is underspec'd for the 4 good size residences it feeds, and they are going to upgrade it to a 50kVA at their cost. I'm hopeful they are not undersizing that. They seem...
  18. Rossn

    Energy Management and Over-current situations

    How fast do those cycle? I think the heater has to cycle off and on rapidly to adjust for the needed BTUs. I think the standard SCR control is up to 30 cycles per second. In this case, think about 750-1000 CFM of 5degreeF air inbound, and needing to modulate the heater to raise the temp by 50F...
  19. Rossn

    Washer & Dryer - A loose outlet above my 3-Prong Outlet

    I'm with Wayne. Looks like the insulation may even be damaged where it arced. If you know the breaker to kill to de-energize it, that might be a good idea. I'm not an electrician, but to my untrained eyes, looks like there may be a few things that are not compliant with current NEC (electrical...
  20. Rossn

    Energy Management and Over-current situations

    Thanks, and good point. When I spoke with Stelpro and asked about some options to manage the current (versus single 50 Amp draw), they did tell me that they can build the heater with multiple stages. However, I'd have to provide controls. So, I'm assuming (and should verify), they cannot install...
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