Water Heater soldering questions

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Sylvan

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I am sure if a 5 year old year old can master soldering in less then 15 minutes using 95 - 5 then why would you knowingly give advice that is not up to code and places his family at risk for lead poisonings.

The liquidous range of 95- 5 takes a few minutes to learn but knowing it has a much higher tensile strength then 50 - 50 and knowing this is going to be used on a water heater where the coefficient of expansion per degree of temperature does place a stress on the copper joints and 50 50 is prone to failure why even suggest it ?

People come here for "expert advice" not looking for a heath risk advice or possible system failure


If you had suggested 60 - 40 (tin /lead) because it offers the strongest joint using solder containing lead possibly one could over look your suggestion although this cost a lot more then other solders containing a higher lead content.

Personally I would be more concerned about the gas piping the DIY person is about to take on as well as the venting

The soldering is the least thing that should be addressed

 

Sylvan

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1. Soldering needs to be done in an open environment. A sealed line will blow out the joint.
3. I would like to think that the gas remains in the black pipes. How close are you talking about? Normally the water and the gas have pretty good distance between.
4. I keep a small towel handy for wiping the pipe and joints. I often use a spray bottle first to reduce the burns that I used to get touching hot pipes.
5. I like to solder the connection that will fit to the water heater first, and then assemble it to the water heater.


Terry, When I have to solder with water in the line I use white bread to stop the flow and it usually gives me enough time to sweat the joint

I also use an over sized turbo torch tip and use the feathers of the flame to heat a male fitting so after the joint is finished I can use an IPS valve close it turn the water back on to test the joint

Also in emergency cases use a compression or flair connection

Today my employees no longer solder unless it is absolutely necessary as they use propress as so they do not need the license I have from the NYC fire department (certificate of fitness) for using "combustible fuels though approved blow pipe"

Also using propress no need for a fire watch, just about no skills required, insurance is cheaper as no open flames are involved and it is much faster then brazing or soldering



 

Terry

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I quit using 50/50 in the 70's before it's use became illegal.
The 95/5 had fewer leaks, and when I mentioned to the other plumbers that I was getting fewer leaks with 95/5 they switched too.
I had young kids and didn't want to bring home lead with my work clothing to them. I wanted to be lead free in all ways that I could.

I have used white bread on repairs many times. Sometimes you ask the homeowner if they have any, and with a puzzled look they hand you a slice of bread.
 

John Gayewski

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Propane let's you slowly heat the joint. Map gas for a beginner is just pointless. Melting valve guts and burning up joints isn't needed.

Acetylene offers a great variety of torch sizes and is pretty flexible. But the question was related to a beginner buying it from a big box store. The common torches they sell, just get small pipe too hot, too quickly for someone who doesn't have experience. Not that it can't be done, propane is just easier.
 
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Jason1

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Thank you guys, excellent tips. For the venting the pitch should be at least 1/4" so the exhaust fumes can travel up and out, and for the gas line flex is the way to go for most homeowners and diy'ers.

Are there any safety tips and instructions that a beginner should be aware of to avoid burns and causing a possible fire when working with a torch that you purchase from a box store.

In this video a map torch just flames up on the user at the 1:29 mark:

He later said the tip was loose which is what caused it. So make sure the tip is tight when using these things. Any other safety precautions a beginner must follow?
 

John Gayewski

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Thank you guys, excellent tips. For the venting the pitch should be at least 1/4" so the exhaust fumes can travel up and out, and for the gas line flex is the way to go for most homeowners and diy'ers.

Are there any safety tips and instructions that a beginner should be aware of to avoid burns and causing a possible fire when working with a torch that you purchase from a box store.

In this video a map torch just flames up on the user at the 1:29 mark:

He later said the tip was loose which is what caused it. So make sure the tip is tight when using these things. Any other safety precautions a beginner must follow?

Your thinking too much. Paralysis by analysis. At some point you got to sweat some joints and test them out. Wet down area that are tight where you feel your flame might get close.
 

Jason1

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I hear you John, too much analysis. For you guys in the trade, how common are torch flare-ups? I just don't want to end up doing something stupid and getting hurt because I didn't follow a basic safety protocol that you pros are all familiar with.
 

Terry

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Fittings on the torch need to be tight, that's a given.
Have a way to put out fires with you on hand.

Sylvan's situation working high rise is even more stressful. There have been entire blocks go down in flames before.
Lot's of flammable material and no way to put it out.
 

Sylvan

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I find it kind of funny when someone says one fuel is to hot for someone to use

Just because Oxyacetylene can produce a flame around 6,000 deg F does not mean someone cannot soft solder with it

If they "play the flame" and realize the where is the hottest point then all they need to do is use the end of the flame

Swirl Jet with acetylene saves time and money as it takes a lot less time to heat the fitting tubing or people can use the regular tip which cost a lot less and takes longer to heat a joint

https://weldguru.com/welding-flames/


The UA required all apprentices to know how to weld, solder, lead burn and lead wipe as well as caulking a joint

 

Jadnashua

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As noted, some places require the gas line to be rigid, some require it to be flex. The difference generally is related to whether you are in earthquake country, where they often require flex gas connections and safety straps on the WH so it can't tip over or pull away from where it was installed. It's important to know your local code requirements to keep everything safe.
 

Jason1

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Thanks guys.

Any reason not to use a brass compression union (lead-free) on 3/4" water heater copper pipe?
https://www.ferguson.com/product/pr...-brass-compression-union-pfxcu78n/_/R-5050925

The gas lines are too close for my taste, I don't feel comfortable soldering next to them.

I'm planning to pre-fab the pieces connecting to the tank outside and connect them to the water lines with a compression union to create a solid secure connection that shouldn't leak or move.
 

John Gayewski

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Thanks guys.

Any reason not to use a brass compression union (lead-free) on 3/4" water heater copper pipe?
https://www.ferguson.com/product/pr...-brass-compression-union-pfxcu78n/_/R-5050925

The gas lines are too close for my taste, I don't feel comfortable soldering next to them.

I'm planning to pre-fab the pieces connecting to the tank outside and connect them to the water lines with a compression union to create a solid secure connection that shouldn't leak or move.
No reason not to use compression.
 

Reach4

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Any reason not to use a brass compression union (lead-free) on 3/4" water heater copper pipe?
While there is no problem with compression on copper, I would rather use a corrugated Falcon connector like PTC34JG-18 or PTC34JG-24, rather than solid pipe with a union (if the local jurisdiction permits). The Falcon units have a bigger ID than most corrugated connectors, such as https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBi...ter-Heater-Connector-SS3088FLEX24LF/205545582. Tho the Sharbite ID is probably adequate. https://www.e-tankless.com/falcon-PTC34JG-18.php The John Guest push-on connections are similar to Sharkbite.

They are also available with an in-line ball valve.

https://www.e-tankless.com/falcon-PTC34JG-18.php

Avoid braided connector lines. Those have a braid over a plastic or rubber tube. Some may be good, but which? Some slough off back particles into the water. I am not a pro.
 
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