Crimp vs. Uponor

[Jadnashua]

Wirsbo/Uphonor pretty much started the PEX industry...generally, they're top of the line, but it has been reported that they had some issue with a batch or so...I'd call them for help. Over the years, they've sold many many miles of the the stuff, and generally, it's not a problem.

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Warranty page in writing.
https://www.uponor.com/en-us/search?query=warranty

Warranty claims.
https://www.uponor.com/en-us/customer-support/warranty-claims

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jeff H Young]

Wirsbo/Uphonor pretty much started the PEX industry...generally, they're top of the line, but it has been reported that they had some issue with a batch or so...I'd call them for help. Over the years, they've sold many many miles of the the stuff, and generally, it's not a problem.

Generaly yes pex of all brands lasts 4 or 5 years or more as does cpvc and copper. but a failure with pipes leakin in walls cant be a regular thing and if it was it still wouldnt change his situation or anyones, other thanI guess a big class action suit or perhaps bankrupt company. after 3 leaks Id be repiping or at least tearing walls out and inspecting it all. i dont care how many thousands of miles are out there . I just care about my 500 feet

 

[Reach4]

https://www.classaction.org/news/di...agued-by-cracking-defect-class-action-alleges

 

[bow]

Oh wow.

If those details are right, sounds like I should ditch the solid red pipe and replace it with the clear one with red writing.

Thanks for the info Reach4!


-bow

https://www.classaction.org/news/di...agued-by-cracking-defect-class-action-alleges

 

[JohnCT]

Oh wow.

If those details are right, sounds like I should ditch the solid red pipe and replace it with the clear one with red writing.

Thanks for the info Reach4!


-bow

I always used the white. The red and blue pipe always seemed so unprofessional.

John

 

[Reach4]

I always used the white. The red and blue pipe always seemed so unprofessional.

John

I had some white I had run, and I had been wishing I had used blue. No longer. This is into my softener, and the input side has a slight orange tint showing due to residual iron that the softener removes. The side by side comparison with the output pipe is distinct.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Yea color coded pipe doesn't look that great. Nor does almost all the PEX plumbing in houses I've seen , I've never seen it commercial, or school, hospital, institution. We use color coded poly sleeve under slab at least whenever we go underslab.
Is there a problem with the color? or just that 2 people had problem with red so that means red is bad?

 

[JohnCT]

Is there a problem with the color? or just that 2 people had problem with red so that means red is bad?

My best guess culled from everything that I've read of the info so far available, is that it's not the red dye specifically that causes the issue, it's the process by which the PEX is prepared for the paint/dye coating combined with the fact the the red colored pipe is used on hot water applications and the blue is not.

Time will tell I guess.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

I'm just wondering how much hotter is the hot water line in a 130 degree attic? is it even from heat or just from a bad batch of material that happened to be color coded red? I notice a yellow slip ring and another that isn't yellowed, not an expert on PEX and not able to state that the yellowing means failure.

 

[wwhitney]

Im just wondering how much hotter is the hot water line in a 130 degree attic?

I think you can safely say that the peak temperature in a hot water pipe exposed to a 130 degree attic will be the greater of 130 degrees and [the water heater set temperature, less a few degrees lost in the travel time from the water heater to the attic].

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

I think you can safely say that the peak temperature in a hot water pipe exposed to a 130 degree attic will be the greater of 130 degrees and [the water heater set temperature, less a few degrees lost in the travel time from the water heater to the attic].

Cheers, Wayne

yea agree it be a little hotter its rated for 180 or 200 degrees . I suspect a bad batch of the red pipe not overheating. the temp differences between the hot and cold at their hottest I wouldn't think be if the attic is 130 and the water coming in is 130 you got 130. if you don't run any water for 3 hours they both likely will be darn close in temperature. I strongly suspect defective material either unrelated or incapable of meeting their heat spec

 

[JohnCT]

I'm just wondering how much hotter is the hot water line in a 130 degree attic? is it even from heat or just from a bad batch of material that happened to be color coded red? I notice a yellow slip ring and another that isn't yellowed, not an expert on PEX and not able to state that the yellowing means failure.

Your question begs another: is a blue "cold" water pipe subject to the same splitting problem as the red if it sits in a hot attic? We know that if the water isn't flowing, the blue PEX cold water pipe will eventually equalize to the ambient temp in the attic, which as we know can get quite hot.

If domestic hot water is controlled to 120 to 140F by mandated mixing valves, then I can see where stagnant water in blue pipe in an attic can get as hot as the red pipe carrying DHW...

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

Thanks Reach 4 I read just a bit about the class action you posted that red and blue both are known to have some "defect" according to plaintiff.
I think its a good chance its defective and not a excessive heat issue .
Bow, Take your course of action but If you've had 3 leaks, Uponor hopefully steps up a little. Try to log you previous repairs with pics as well as you can

 

[JohnCT]

General question: does anyone know if the red and blue pipe been available from Wirsbo/Uponor in this country from the start, or did they start with all white pipe and move to colored pipe later on? I ask this because up until a year ago, I had never heard of a Uponor pipe issue. Supposedly, Uponor has been selling PEX A in Europe for decades with no problems but I don't know if they always sold colored pipe or even if they started using a different process to color them later on.

John

 

[wwhitney]

FWIW, the patent mentioned in the class action sounds like this one, which has an application date of 2009:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100084037A1/en

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

FWIW, the patent mentioned in the class action sounds like this one, which has an application date of 2009:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100084037A1/en

Cheers, Wayne

Awhole lot to take in Wayne thanks for putting it up. I really have to withhold an opinion on a particular cause of failure . in any case there is warranty involvement and hope those affected take action to protect their homes.

 

[JohnCT]

FWIW, the patent mentioned in the class action sounds like this one, which has an application date of 2009:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100084037A1/en

Cheers, Wayne

Here's an interesting quote from the patent application...

The pipe is then run through a curing apparatus (step 107). In some embodiments, the curing apparatus is a chamber through which the pipe runs, and the pre-polymer composition on a surface of the pipe is exposed to radiation. The radiation may be ultraviolet (UV) radiation and/or electron beam (EB) radiation.

Exposed to UV? Hmm....

John

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

General question: does anyone know if the red and blue pipe been available from Wirsbo/Uponor in this country from the start, or did they start with all white pipe and move to colored pipe later on? I ask this because up until a year ago, I had never heard of a Uponor pipe issue. Supposedly, Uponor has been selling PEX A in Europe for decades with no problems but I don't know if they always sold colored pipe or even if they started using a different process to color them later on.

John

I don't recall them having colored tubing right off the bat. We were installing Wirsbo before it was approved in the Then current code.. but approved in the upcoming but not then adopted code. When we failed inspections due to the non compliant tubing, we had the inspector call the manufactures rep and would get approved after.

 

[Jadnashua]

Pex has been around for a long time, but it didn't become available in volume until about 50-years ago.

The first PEX material was prepared in the 1930s, by irradiating the extruded tube with an electron beam. The electron beam processing method was made feasible in the 1970s, but was still expensive. In the 1960s, Engel cross-linking was developed.

Pex was brought to the USA in the mid-80's primarily for use in hydronic heating systems. It wasn't until the early 2000's that it started to be used for potable water in the USA.

In 1972, Wirsbo, using Engle's cross-linking method started to supply tubing in Europe. It took about 10-years before it made it to the USA. Wirsbo (Uphonor) is the only company that has a vertical production system meaning that they make their own raw stock. Everyone else buys their raw stock from some other supplier, so don't have as much control over the whole process. That also means that Uphonor has few excuses if there's a problem with their product.