Home drain lines are clogging at the cleanout. Water under laminate.

[CaliSkier]

Hi,

So I bought a house that I am renting, this is the 2nd month I have rented it. The renter called last night and said that the house was flooding, toilet in the master and AC drain in the garage both overflowed.

I called the former owner and he said remove the cap off the cleanout outside and plung it. The renter did that and it cleared. I asked the owner if this happens often and he said it didn't but this is the fix when it does. He said if someone flushes something they are not supposed to it will cause this. Sounds to me like it is clogging beyond the cleanout, odd...

Edit: Also, the previous owners said something about a "flap" that gets "stuck" or "clogged". Cant remember what he exactly said about the "flap" but the plunging fixes it. Thoughts here?

Questions:
1. I have never seen this happen on 4 other houses I have owned. Is this a common thing? Does something need to be done, or just tell them to be on the lookout, try to watch what gets flushed, and plunge it if it clogs again?
2. The water got under the laminate in the master. I think I will shop vac it heavily tonight when I go over there. If no other water is going to be present in the future should I just do that and leave it? My thinking is there will be no further water for mold to grow. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance folks...

 

[Reach4]

I called the former owner and he said remove the cap off the cleanout outside and plung it. The renter did that and it cleared. I asked the owner if this happens often and he said it didn't but this is the fix when it does. He said if someone flushes something they are not supposed to it will cause this. Sounds to me like it is clogging beyond the cleanout, odd...

I have a hard time seeing how plunging would work. Pushing into a cleanout would seem to send things up the vent.

I would get the septic pumped if you have septic, and bring in a drain cleaning specialist to clean the line to the sewer if sewer. Plus inside lines too. Get an experienced person, preferably a one person shop that is not a franchise. Some franchised people will be good, and others are hiring inexperienced non-dedicated people. The worst is where they want to sell a new sewer if you don't need one. Maybe you do, but be skeptical.

 

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[CaliSkier]

I have a hard time seeing how plunging would work. Pushing into a cleanout would seem to send things up the vent.

I would get the septic pumped if you have septic, and bring in a drain cleaning specialist to clean the line to the sewer if sewer. Plus inside lines too. Get an experienced person, preferably a one person shop that is not a franchise. Some franchised people will be good, and others are hiring inexperienced non-dedicated people. The worst is where they want to sell a new sewer if you don't need one. Maybe you do, but be skeptical.

Thanks, good advice on a one man shop. Appreciate that.

Its not a septic tank, its a city sewer line that it connects to on the neighbors side of the fence. The previous owners said something about a "flap" that gets stuck or clogged? any thoughts on what that could be?

 

[Reach4]

Its not a septic tank, its a city sewer line that it connects to on the neighbors side of the fence. The previous owners said something about a "flap" that gets stuck or clogged? any thoughts on what that could be?

Could be talking about a normally closed backwater valve with a flap. Those normally get held open by debris, so don't prevent sewer backups. Maybe it is something else that I am not familiar with.

Your problem this time is not a sewer backup. I would talk to the sewer department to ask if your area is subject to sewer backups. If it is, consider more serious upgrade, perhaps to "overhead sewers".

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

The flap sounds like a backwater valve. It is very important to locate that valve and get it cleaned. Also very important that if anyone is running any cleaning equipment down the drain that they are aware of it. Undisclosed backwater valves will destroy cameras, jetters and cables and ruin the BWV... and they will charge you for the equipment loss. Cameras cost around 5k to replace.

We have stickers and plastic tags that we attach to cleanouts upstream of BWV's to warn drain cleaners of the device downstream.

 

[CaliSkier]

Could be talking about a normally closed backwater valve with a flap. Those normally get held open by debris, so don't prevent sewer backups. Maybe it is something else that I am not familiar with.

Your problem this time is not a sewer backup. I would talk to the sewer department to ask if your area is subject to sewer backups. If it is, consider more serious upgrade, perhaps to "overhead sewers".

I bet that is what it is, it will open when someone is using the water and if the city line backs up it will close it. That is the way it is suppose to work, correct? 1 min video here shows it.

The closing valve is on the house side (water moving right to left from the house in the picture) opening out to let water out, but held closed if water comes back in. In this case I am guessing debris got past it and held it closed? Is the top for plunging?

 

[CaliSkier]

The flap sounds like a backwater valve. It is very important to locate that valve and get it cleaned. Also very important that if anyone is running any cleaning equipment down the drain that they are aware of it. Undisclosed backwater valves will destroy cameras, jetters and cables and ruin the BWV... and they will charge you for the equipment loss. Cameras cost around 5k to replace.

We have stickers and plastic tags that we attach to cleanouts upstream of BWV's to warn drain cleaners of the device downstream.

Yes, thank you as well. I am starting to think that is what this is. Why would they clog and have to be plunged?

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

There are many factors that could affect it including slope of drain its attached to, type of pipe.. plastic, cast iron, concrete etc...

We have been installing them a lot lately after a couple deaths by sewer flooded basements were attributed to lack of back water valves.

Another thing I learned from a client who had one fail to prevent a back up is that they need to be inspected and cleaned periodically to avoid failure. We didn't install the failed unit.. but periodic testing and cleaning in now part of my contract if we install one.

 

[CaliSkier]

My continued thanks, how often should they be inspected and/or cleaned? Is that every 5 years? what is the typical cost for that? (certainly worth it in my case)

 

[Tuttles Revenge]

Each installation would be different. I would clean it and get it in good working order then assess it again in a range of a month to 6 months to see what it looks like. If its clean then go another 6mo.. assess from there. Manufactures may have suggestions on cleaning schedule too.

No way to give a cost given that every market has different values.

 

[Reach4]

I bet that is what it is, it will open when someone is using the water and if the city line backs up it will close it. That is the way it is suppose to work, correct? 1 min video here shows it.

I think you area saying that you think your house has something like that. That is sometimes called a "normally closed" backwater valve.
The common problem with those is that somebody drops dental floss or a q-tip or something else down the toilet, and the flapper does not close all of the way. I suspect that even a build-up of toilet paper might prevent a seal.

I have not heard of the problem you are describing, and I am wondering how a plunger could draw a vacuum with an empty sewer downstream able to supply air. In your case it is apparently happening. I am just not able to picture how it occurs. Sp did your discussion with the old owner seem to imply that the cleanout was over the flapper?

 

[CaliSkier]

Each installation would be different. I would clean it and get it in good working order then assess it again in a range of a month to 6 months to see what it looks like. If its clean then go another 6mo.. assess from there. Manufactures may have suggestions on cleaning schedule too.

No way to give a cost given that every market has different values.

For sure, and thank you again.

 

[CaliSkier]

I think you area saying that you think your house has something like that. That is sometimes called a "normally closed" backwater valve.
The common problem with those is that somebody drops dental floss or a q-tip or something else down the toilet, and the flapper does not close all of the way. I suspect that even a build-up of toilet paper might prevent a seal.

I have not heard of the problem you are describing, and I am wondering how a plunger could draw a vacuum with an empty sewer downstream able to supply air. In your case it is apparently happening. I am just not able to picture how it occurs. Sp did your discussion with the old owner seem to imply that the cleanout was over the flapper?

Now that you guys have educated me I can call the previous owner and ask him more information about the flap and see what he says about it.

 

[CaliSkier]

I am almost positive its a setup like this. In my case there is a clean out downstream toward the sewer and this unit is closest to the house. Thinking about it more, the sewer manholes are likely higher than the drains in my house for this neighborhood, thus the need for this.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I am almost positive its a setup like this. In my case there is a clean out downstream toward the sewer and this unit is closest to the house. Thinking about it more, the sewer manholes are likely higher than the drains in my house for this neighborhood, thus the need for this.
View attachment 75681

next time you get a backup pull cleanout downstream and see if its full of water. if it is , then the backwater valve is just doing its job by preventing . it from coming in the home. if its empty then its a malfuntion of the valve.
no trees in yard?

 

[Chefwong]

I'm not following this.
Plunge the top
Not familiar with this BW valve, but isn't the inner assembly just meant to be removed for service.

If the OP is getting water inside, that would infer the valve is closed and what is flooding the inside is the stuff being put down the drain from the inside.

Either the flapper on that needs to be replaced as it if failing , or it's working , as it is holding outside water from flooding.

 

[CaliSkier]

UPDATE, its not like I thought it was, I just got back from the house. Its a weird setup, I have pictures but the system will not allow me to share so I drew this. The house is to the right. I had to dig it up. Its about 18 inches deep. The entire thing is buried under dirt (except the tops of the clean outs, I assume that is what those are with no access panel and I can't get the lid off as the dirt is stuck in between the lid and the base. I could barely see water flow down both sides of the cleanouts and it did not flow very quickly.

I assume this valve has not been unearthed in 15 years, that is how old the house is.

Any thoughts on how to get the lid off? I found some pictures of similar setups online. What is the purpose of the two cleanouts?

 

[Reach4]

What is the purpose of the two cleanouts?

To run the snake in each direction.

Are you saying that neither photo is yours? If so, good. That one showing the trench is weird the way there is a short turn elbow into a tee not made for drainage.

So which side did your tenant plunge-- street side or house side?

 

[Chefwong]

Heh. How about starting with a big/bigger tounge/groove wrench is the easy answer.
You got cleanout ports so it's a easy snake/jetter in both directions. I'd start on the one towards the street and then work backward from there....depending on when it starts flowing

 

[CaliSkier]

To run the snake in each direction.

Are you saying that neither photo is yours? If so, good. That one showing the trench is weird the way there is a short turn elbow into a tee not made for drainage.

So which side did your tenant plunge-- street side or house side?

Yes neither picture is mine, They plunged the pipe on the house side, the right side in the brown diagram