Small copper repair

[Shaklee3]

Hi, I have a spot behind the shower where there is a small leak in one of the copper joints where two 90s were used to move the copper about 2". The leak is in one of those 90s connecting to the longer piece going to the shower head. My question is I need to replace this to stop the leak, but it seems like replacing copper in line is going to be difficult given how rigid it is. I was thinking maybe I can do away with the two 90s altogether and go straight from a shark bite before the curve, to PEX, and back to copper near the shower head with another shark bite. This will allow the PEX to make up for the copper turn with the 90s.

Does this sound okay or is it a bad idea?

 

[Jeff H Young]

That will work fine. I'm not fond of shark bites . but if you don't solder, its an option, isn't under real pressure, and in extreme case is accessible from this side of wall.
Just do yourself a favor and be extra cautious its a small job so just a few minutes extra be sure everything is cleaned and deburred well. also cut your PEX a little long so bend is more gentle.
This will work go for it!

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

If you solder, there is a thing called a repair coupling.

If you want to use pex with 2 Sharkbite couplers to do the jog, you want to make that pex piece long enough. I am thinking about 2 ft, but I may be too cautious . Do let the bends be gentle.

 

[wwhitney]

it seems like replacing copper in line is going to be difficult given how rigid it is.

In the case of your picture, I think you'd have enough flexibility to do the repair in copper, if you are comfortable soldering and would prefer to use copper. The upper segment is long enough and unconstrained so I believe the bottom of it would have enough flexibility left-right.

So if you heated the 90-90 joint, I would expect you could pull it apart enough to separate. Then desolder both fittings, clean up the pipe ends, and reassemble with a new 90 and street 90, mechanically making up the 90-90 joint last, then soldering all 3 joints at once.

BTW, the upper segment looks like it slants back to the left, so I wonder if the top of that segment is actually in line with the bottom segment. That would suggest that someone did a repair or splice using two 90s in order to take advantage of the geometry and flexibility discussed above. In which case the proper repair would be to eliminate the double 90s. You could cut them out, then put in a short segment of copper to replace what you cut out, using one regular coupling and one repair (slip) coupling. Or if you don't want to solder, a sharkbite repair coupling.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jeff H Young]

If you solder, there is a thing called a repair coupling.

If you want to use PEX with 2 Sharkbite couplers to do the jog, you want to make that PEX piece long enough. I am thinking about 2 ft, but I may be too cautious . Do let the bends be gentle.

Yep PEX is cheap as heck a piece 1 foot isn't any better than 18 inches or 2 foot. that's why make it longer for gentle curves and no stress on shark bite

 

[Reach4]

The leak is in one of those 90s connecting to the longer piece going to the shower head.

On second thought, for a showerhead, they were probably using the rigidity of the copper to help keep the showerhead in place. I think you will want to clamp that upper copper firmly into place before cutting.

 

[Jeff H Young]

by all means if you can solder and aren't looking for an easier way go with solder.
I figured if you were comfortable soldering and had the equipment you wouldn't be asking your question.
So there you go shaklee 3 several options

 

[Shaklee3]

Thanks everyone! I'm comfortable soldering, but I'm not as comfortable trying to shimmy copper pipe in such a small space. As Reach pointed out, the top is fixed into a stud with screws for the outlet, so there's not much play in moving it towards the top. I'm not an expert solderer, and I did all of this piping you see in the first place (which is why there's a small leak!), but I'm thinking I need to cut out a big enough piece of copper just to be able to bend it slightly into there. The reason I didn't do PEX the first time is the tooling to do all the bends and stuff was very expensive for a one-off job.

You can't see it in the pic, but the brass outlet at the top is basically right at the top of the picture, so it doesn't have any more room than what's shown.

Just out of curiosity, why would shark bites be bad? They do appear to me to be something that's for amateurs and pros would never use them, but I've read very good things about their longevity so I wasn't sure why people didn't like them (besides cost).

 

[wwhitney]

So why did you put in the double 90s in the first place? From the picture it certainly looks like the top of the pipe is lined up over the shower valve outlet. Or perhaps the perspective is misleading?

Note that the strategy I described doesn't involve any up-down play in either pipe, it only relies on horizontal motion, which relies on the flexibility that you get from the long arm.

If the leak is small, there's some possibility of fluxing the area, heating it, and feeding in more solder. Not sure if that is good advice or a repair prone to not lasting long.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Shaklee3]

Hi Wayne, The looks are slightly deceiving. There's a diverter valve at the very bottom of the picture, and about 30 in from there to the brass fitting at the top. I could probably have gotten away with just sending the copper straight up, but I remember it being slightly difficult due to that fitting at the top. This is also where the wall ends, so I can't easily get access to that fitting from here to redo that. I do get your point about getting rid of the 90s entirely, but I think the copper will bend too much for that. I just measured and it looks like it would have to move about 0.5" from top to bottom, so it seems like it would go into the couplings at a slight angle

Edit I've attached more pics

 

[Reach4]

Just out of curiosity, why would shark bites be bad? They do appear to me to be something that's for amateurs and pros would never use them, but I've read very good things about their longevity so I wasn't sure why people didn't like them (besides cost).

The pros would be well-equipted and practiced in soldering, but many have moved largely to "press" fittings, which use a tool more expensive than even the electric pex tools.

I think pros are getting more trusting of Sharkbites as they develop successful history, but the fittings are still more expensive than solder. Plus, there is more prestige in a soldered joint. Sharkbite does not risk fire, and does not need the clearance of a press tool.

Repair couplings come the same as regular couplings, but without the stop. They also come in longer cut-to-length size which can fill gaps. Sioux Chief 600-212PK is nominal 1/2 inch, and fits over 1/2 inch copper:
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Chief-600-212PK-1-2-x-12-Sweat-Full-Slip-Copper-Repair-Coupling
https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...repair-coupling/600-212pk/p-1444442675143.htm
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/plumbing/pipe-fittings/copper-fittings/4094942

 

[Shaklee3]

Thanks for all the tips. Much appreciated. I think I'll go the PEX route just due to the amount it wants to bend, and I like the suggestion some of you made to rid of the 90s entirely. I'll leave the wall open for a few months just to monitor leaks anyways.

 

[JohnCT]

I guess I'm old school, but I don't like the idea of using a SB behind sheetrock even if it's code allowed.

As Reach says, there is a repair coupling for copper pipe.

This is like a regular coupling but with no stops inside. This allows you to repair copper without having to push the copper back when there's little to no flex. It works kind of like heat shrink tubing. Just slide the coupling up the pipe, align the two pieces, then slide back over the junction. You just have to be sure you slide the coupling pretty much over the center.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

I guess I'm old school, but I don't like the idea of using a SB behind sheetrock even if it's code allowed.

As Reach says, there is a repair coupling for copper pipe.

This is like a regular coupling but with no stops inside. This allows you to repair copper without having to push the copper back when there's little to no flex. It works kind of like heat shrink tubing. Just slide the coupling up the pipe, align the two pieces, then slide back over the junction. You just have to be sure you slide the coupling pretty much over the center.

John

I don't like shark bites or PEX either behind sheet rock. plus i fixed dozens if not a hundred copper leaks. how about an entire house piped in CPVC or galvanized? I'm not crazy about shark bites but if someone cant or doesn't want to buy tools a sharkbite isn't end of world. In fact if he has a copper leak why should he trust the rest of the copper plumbing in a house any more than the shark bite

 

[WorthFlorida]

No reason to use PEX or anything else if your comfy with soldering.

As others seem to have suggested, you can easily unsweat the two 90's, clean the ends of the pipe with heat to keep the solder soft and wipe it down to remove as much old solder as possible. Get two new 90' and a short piece pipe and redo the joint as is. A street elbow may work to eliminate the little length of pipe between the two elbows.

 

[Reach4]

Another option would be to solder in a section of soft copper.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbil...ft-Type-L-Coil-5-8-in-O-D-LSC4010PS/202287111

 

[JohnCT]

In fact if he has a copper leak why should he trust the rest of the copper plumbing in a house any more than the shark bite

Because one copper leak isn't necessarily indicative of the long term durability of the rest of the joints made by the same installer, whereas 100% of every Sharkbite installation must rely on the performance of an O-ring seal at least, and to a not insignificant degree on the care of the installer. A slight burr on the cut pipe or a small defect on the pipe's contract surface with the O-ring can also cause a down-the-road problem.

John

 

[Shaklee3]

Well, I tried the shark-bite method as mentioned, but in doing so I moved the bottom copper a bit too much and the solder joint on the valve broke. My new plan is to do as you all suggested and unsolder the copper that's leaking from the valve, get a single big piece of copper and see if I can run that all the way up to the top copper with a repair coupling. It's a tight fit to get to it, but I've got the fire-proof blanket ready. I'll post updates when I'm done!

 

[Shaklee3]

So I fit the pipe into the valve and ran it up where the connection is. As you can see in the picture, it's not a straight line, which makes getting the coupler on way harder. I have the coupler on the top piece, and for the life of me I can't slide it down because it's not in a line. What's next? Flexible copper tubing or do another 90/90 combo to move it a couple inches?

Also, there's a little bit of play in the pipe with the shower head, so I could slightly move that, but not much. I was trying to get the pipes almost touching so the coupler had the most coverage.

 

[Shaklee3]

I ended up doing a hybrid approach and just bought a pex crimping tool, then sweating the adapter into the valve and the shower head pipe. After doing this it seems the leaks are gone, but now my diverter valve doesn't work. I took the plastic parts out before sweating, so it shouldn't have melted anything. Any ideas?

Edit: found it. Stupid mistake. This valve has two little plastic notches that have to be lined up with the metal housing inside. I didn't line it up.