Trusting my ability to Solder?

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GizzyGone

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I’ve soldered a few joints over the years: but I definitely don’t have a lot of confidence in my technique: knock on wood, nothing has leaked yet, but I end up with messy joints.

I use a MAP torch for anything 3/4 or larger, so I also get nervous about over-heating any ball valves.

Any work I have done has been on my own home: So typically I’m going back to my work for weeks to make sure everything is holding up.

But: I’m considering buying a propress tool for my next project: replacing the water main shutoff. Brass ball valve, 1” copper pipe and close proximity to a tee: It just sounds like a recipe for disaster?

Or, am I overthinking this?
 

JohnCT

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I’ve soldered a few joints over the years: but I definitely don’t have a lot of confidence in my technique: knock on wood, nothing has leaked yet, but I end up with messy joints.

I use a MAP torch for anything 3/4 or larger, so I also get nervous about over-heating any ball valves.

Any work I have done has been on my own home: So typically I’m going back to my work for weeks to make sure everything is holding up.

But: I’m considering buying a propress tool for my next project: replacing the water main shutoff. Brass ball valve, 1” copper pipe and close proximity to a tee: It just sounds like a recipe for disaster?

Or, am I overthinking this?


I haven't used a Propress tool, but I suspect that while it seems foolproof, there might be a small learning curve to it. Wasting a few fittings and some pipe in trial runs might be worth it to get a handle on the process.

John
 

Sylvan

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I only solder or braze or thread but I promoted one of my employees to be my partner and he bought mega press and progress and roller groover for stand piping and chilled water systems


As much as I hate seeing the profession being dummied down I have to admit progress is faster, safer (no flame) easier and so much cheaper as labor costs a lot more than materials.

Even a 5-year-old child can use progress with 30 seconds of training

Even with small leaks progress or mega press can make leak-proof joints including steam
 

Reach4

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Even a 5-year-old child can use propress with 30 seconds of training
I expect OP is looking at a manual tool, probably less than 10% the price of a power tool. That would require considerable strength to operate
 

Tuttles Revenge

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A few tips to make a great looking fully soldered joint.

Clean your work, fitting and pipe should be sanded or brushed bright.
Use a quality soldering flux without debris
Before applying solder, heat the work slightly to melt the flux and lightly wipe the excess away. You don't need a bunch of flux dripping all over.
Use only the heat required to melt the solder, You're not welding. The tip of brightest blue flame is the hottest part of the flame. Way hotter than needed to melt solder. Once the work is hot enough to take solder, move the flame away to a point where you're maintaining the temp to take solder. Theres a range there. Get used to feeling/seeing that range.
Apply just enough solder to fill your joint. Start at the bottom on horizontal joints and work your way up. Especially true if there is any trace of water in your work. Any risk of water should be known right away. If the joint solders at the bottom, it will at the top.
A small bead of excess solder is fine.. a huge stalagmite is gross. A nice line at the top of the fitting is perfect. Voids should be inspected.
Wiping your hot work to get rid of solder blobs risks wrecking your joint. Wait til its cooled enough to solidify. Wipe with a dry rag to clean.

Test your work by pulling apart a few test fittings. Is there solder on the entire surface area of each the pipe and the fitting?

Black bits usually means you've burned the flux.
 

GizzyGone

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I expect OP is looking at a manual tool, probably less than 10% the price of a power tool. That would require considerable strength to operate
I’ve looked at the manual tool: but I have concerns that it wouldn’t give you the same joint as an electric tool?

I’ve been looking on EBay for refurbed/used models to see if I can get the pricing lower. I figure if they last any length of time in storage, it might pay itself off come time to replace my water heater/any other plumbing projects.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Either tool is going to press to the same tolerances. When I bought my press tool brand new it was close to 4 or 5k.. Tho I think we got some discounts for buying a bunch of them. We use them all the time. From 4" copper in a big industrial job to 1/2"-1" in normal residential

The biggest trick to press is the sequence or prefab work when you're in a tight space. If your work is right up tight to a wall or stud, then you have to press those first as a prefab piece..

Someone once asked or mentioned that you can Braze press fittings if they develop a leak.. I tested that idea and confirmed that I could braze a fitting after it was pressed.
 

GizzyGone

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Either tool is going to press to the same tolerances. When I bought my press tool brand new it was close to 4 or 5k.. Tho I think we got some discounts for buying a bunch of them. We use them all the time. From 4" copper in a big industrial job to 1/2"-1" in normal residential

The biggest trick to press is the sequence or prefab work when you're in a tight space. If your work is right up tight to a wall or stud, then you have to press those first as a prefab piece..

Someone once asked or mentioned that you can Braze press fittings if they develop a leak.. I tested that idea and confirmed that I could braze a fitting after it was pressed.

That’s good to know about the manual tool: I’m thinking for my use, it might do the trick... But I’m also told it does take quite a bit of force.

I was looking at the M12 tool myself: I don’t have any pipes over 1” in my home: so the larger pro-press tools would certainly be overkill.
There are lots of second hand options online that take the $2000 new price tag down a couple hundred bucks (which I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth it: I have no idea if those used tools need calibration)
 

Tuttles Revenge

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They do require calibration to be within spec. I stopped using the hand wirsbo tool on 1" because my elbow would ache the next day. Even if you do purchase a very expensive used tool.. its likely resellable after you're done with it.
 

viper1

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While I fully agree with crimps in certain situations, there are also situations where solder is just needed. I suspect the crimp stuff will be like an auto vs manual transmission. It will always be good to know how to solder and hone that skill when needed.

I recently did a water softener upgrade for someone. I prefer and used pex but I had to get tied into the original Copper. I took one look at the price of those crimp fittings and was like "nah, solder it is". Just consider that you are in a tough spot and have a few solder fittings that will do the job.

BTW, you won't be crimping a solder ball valve. Your option has to move to something that takes more fittings and space. One thing plumbers rarely do, but should always be done is a wet rag over the middle of the valve. Solder horizontal when possible. Do NOT over solder! This is where people get bit.
 

JohnCT

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One thing I've always done when sweating pipes is to *lightly* heat the pipes away from the joint. The biggest problem with bad solder is a cold joint, and getting the heat even is the biggest obstacle. By preheating the pipes 6-8" away from the joint, the pipe doesn't suck the heat out of the attempted joint nearly as much as it does as when the pipes are cold. Less heat for a shorter amount of time is required if the pipes are pre-warmed.

John
 

Terry

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They do require calibration to be within spec. I stopped using the hand wirsbo tool on 1" because my elbow would ache the next day. Even if you do purchase a very expensive used tool.. its likely resellable after you're done with it.

OMG, the first tools for Wirsbo. It was so nice when they came out with the battery powered expander.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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OMG, the first tools for Wirsbo. It was so nice when they came out with the battery powered expander.

I still have the original tool that Mechanical Agents gave us to test their new system.. I even have some of the original brass tees that were machined from blocks of brass before they started casting them.

Wirsbo Gun.jpg
 
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