Softener is installed - Thank you to everyone who helped

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BobbytheBus

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I have my softener connected and everything seems to be working. I wanted to thank you guys for helping a complete stranger who made a lot of dumb posts. With your help I now feel like I'm not a complete idiot.

The drain line is really the only thing I'm concerned about. I used 3/4 pvc. total distance was 35 feet. Within that distance 4 feet in height from control board drain. It runs 16 feet and then turns left and then runs another 15 feet. Does this seem ok? It did drain but I remember someone mentioned there could be issues down the road? Is there anything I should watch out for or should I be good?

The help I have gotten from you guys has been incredible and has inspired me to pay it forward. I made a donation to CFF which is a foundation that helps children and young adults with CF. Again thank you guys for helping me. Your help to me will now be passed to someone else in need.
 

Reach4

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The drain line is really the only thing I'm concerned about. I used 3/4 pvc. total distance was 35 feet. Within that distance 4 feet in height from control board drain. It runs 16 feet and then turns left and then runs another 15 feet. Does this seem ok? It did drain but I remember someone mentioned there could be issues down the road? Is there anything I should watch out for or should I be good?
While 3/4 is probably overkill, overkill can be good. This way you are meeting what the manual says, which is overly-conservative for a softener. If convenient, you could measure how long backwash takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket. That is not at all needed, but if you like doing such stuff, it can be interesting. Hardly anybody does that.
 

BobbytheBus

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While 3/4 is probably overkill, overkill can be good. This way you are meeting what the manual says, which is overly-conservative for a softener. If convenient, you could measure how long backwash takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket. That is not at all needed, but if you like doing such stuff, it can be interesting. Hardly anybody does that.
That's a really good idea. If I do test that how many GPM should it be at?

The manual does say maximum 30 feet with proper sloping. I have an alternating Valve on the control board to save salt. And on the alternating valve is where I run the 3/4 pvc drain line from. I don't know if that makes a difference that I have an alternating Valve on my softener.
 

BobbytheBus

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around 2.4 gpm for a 10 inch tank, and 3.5 for a 12 inch tank.

gpm=300/(time in seconds to fill 5 gallon bucket).
So since the backwash on mine is only 1.7 which you guys said was low does that mean anything coming out 1.7 or over if I do the test would mean I wasn't doing any harm to the softener or do I still want 2.4? The diameter is 10 inch on the softener.
 

Reach4

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So since the backwash on mine is only 1.7 which you guys said was low does that mean anything coming out 1.7 or over if I do the test would mean I wasn't doing any harm to the softener or do I still want 2.4? The diameter is 10 inch on the softener.
What is the diameter on your tank? Reach around the fiberglass tank with a string, mark the string, measure the string length, and divide by 3.14 (pi).

An 8 inch tank would normally have a 1.5 gpm backwash, and 9 inch would be about 2.0 gpm. Needed backwash is proportional to the diameter squared.
 
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Bannerman

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do I still want 2.4? The diameter is 10 inch on the softener.
If equipped with a Fleck valve, a 2.4 GPM DLFC is usually appropriate for a 10" diameter media tank. If a Clack valve, often a 2.7 GPM will be utilized.

The drain flow rate would be less if your softener utilizes an Enpress Vortech media tank or your incoming water is extremely cold.
 
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Reach4

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Searching back in one of your earlier threads, I see that the run of 3/4 had no impact on your flow.
You seem to be extremely knowledgeable on here. Wondering if you know if I can run that drain line 35 feet and 5 feet up from the softener. Total is 8.25 feet from the floor. Total distance is 35 feet when you add all directions. The flow is 1.7 gpm.
The mineral tank is 10x40. Is that 1.7 going to be hard to push far like I need it to?

The dealer may have supplied the wrong DLFC. Look at it, and if it is ~1.7, he should make it right.
 

BobbytheBus

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If equipped with a Fleck valve, a 2.4 GPM DLFC is usually appropriate for a 10" diameter media tank. If a Clack valve, often a 2.7 GPM will be utilized.

The drain flow rate would be less if your softener utilizes an Enpress Vortech media tank or your incoming water is extremely cold.
You are right again. It says it has a vortech tank which I saw is an enpress. I don't know what that means but a quick search it says it uses 30 percent less flow rate then a standard tank and uses less water to regenerate. Am I still ok with pushing 33 feet(I was off by 2 feet when I added last time).
 

BobbytheBus

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Searching back in one of your earlier threads, I see that the run of 3/4 had no impact on your flow.



The dealer may have supplied the wrong DLFC. Look at it, and if it is ~1.7, he should make it right.
Bannerman was right it is a vortech tank and uses 30 percent less flow rate. I don't know if this messes up me pushing 33 feet. I miscalculated the total earlier.
 

Bannerman

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A Vortech bottom plate will result in less flow restriction compared to more common gravel underbedding. With less flow restriction, the softener resin can be lifted too high in the tank during backwash which can result in resin loss to drain. Reducing the drain flow rate does not effect the length of the drain line but is only intended to limit the amount of resin expansion and lift.

The claim of 30% lower flow rate needed is a little optimistic. In actual practice, 15-20% is more realistic. 2.4 - 15% = 2.04 GPM. 2.4 - 20% = 1.92 GPM. I anticipate a 2.0 GPM DLFC restrictor will be suitable.

https://www.enpress.com/site/project/vortech-and-mid-vortech/
 
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BobbytheBus

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A Vortech bottom plate will result in less flow restriction compared to more common gravel underbedding. With less flow restriction, the softener resin can be lifted too high in the tank during backwash which can result in resin loss to drain. Reducing the drain flow rate does not effect the length of the drain line but is only intended to limit the amount of resin expansion and lift.

The claim of 30% lower flow rate needed is a little optimistic. In actual practice, 15-20% is more realistic. 2.4 - 15% = 2.04 GPM. 2.4 - 20% = 1.92 GPM. I anticipate a 2.0 GPM DLFC restrictor will be suitable.

https://www.enpress.com/site/project/vortech-and-mid-vortech/
That is not what I wanted to hear since you are always right. How much Resin am I going to lose if I use the 1.7? Is it difficult to swap out the restrictor for a different one?
 

Bannerman

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How much Resin am I going to lose if I use the 1.7?
1.7 will not allow as much resin expansion and lift compared to 2.0 GPM, so there should be 0 resin lost to drain.

The media tank will not be filled with resin but only to approx 2/3 height. The empty space above provides the space needed for expansion. The usual expansion for softener resin is 40-50%. With the tank containing resin 2/3 high, will allow the resin to expand 50% within the remaining 1/3 space.
 

Reach4

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If you have an almond (natural) color unpainted tank, you can shine a bright light through in the dark. If you backwash, you can see how much bed expansion there is during backwash.
The media tank will not be filled with resin but only to approx 2/3 height. The empty space above provides the space needed for expansion. The usual expansion for softener resin is 40-50%. With the tank containing resin 2/3 high, will allow the resin to expand 50% within the remaining 1/3 space.
Resin height is 26.7 inches, leaving 13.3 inches of free space (freeboard).
Half of that is 6.7 inches.

I think that would be considered 25% bed expansion.
 
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BobbytheBus

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1.7 will not allow as much resin expansion and lift compared to 2.0 GPM, so there should be 0 resin lost to drain.

The media tank will not be filled with resin but only to approx 2/3 height. The empty space above provides the space needed for expansion. The usual expansion for softener resin is 40-50%. With the tank containing resin 2/3 high, will allow the resin to expand 50% within the remaining 1/3 space.
I appreciate you explaining this. I'm not sure what this means other then the resin won't expand and take up the other third of the tank. I guess I should stop trying to figure this out and just take your kind advice and use a different restrictor. Thank you.
 

BobbytheBus

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If you have an almond (natural) color unpainted tank, you can shine a bright light through in the dark. If you backwash, you can see how much bed expansion there is during backwash.
That sounds like a nice trick to see what's happening. The tank is blue.
 

Bannerman

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I'm not sure what this means

The video below and at the Enpress site shows the process. The info regarding Fast Rinse is somewhat inaccurate as the calcium, magnesium and excess salt brine will be rinsed away to drain during the Slow Rinse phase, and Fast or Rapid Rinse is utilized to recompact the resin bed before the regen cycle ends and soft water flow to the home is resumed. The setting for Rapid Rinse is not overly critical and so 5-10 minutes is often programmed.

 
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BobbytheBus

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The video below and at the Enpress site shows the process. The info regarding Fast Rinse is somewhat inaccurate as the calcium, magnesium and excess salt brine will be rinsed away to drain during the Slow Rinse phase, and Fast or Rapid Rinse is utilized to recompact the resin bed before the regen cycle ends and soft water flow to the home is resumed. The setting for Rapid Rinse is not overly critical and so 5-10 minutes is often programmed.

I understand now and feel a little embarrassed I didn't know how exactly water softeners work.
 
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