Galvanized tank replumb to prepare disinfection

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Andre Martinez

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I am here because I want to be sure I don't make a mistake that costs even more to fix. I just spent the last year building amy house and while I finished woodworking and trim and well was installed I noticed the toilets had a when the water was finished and connected and well guy said he had to test water so I do a little research and see what that was and buy a 10" whole house water filter cartridge setup that i figured would at least filter out that soluble iron and keep it from getting in the water lines while we wait for test results. Well here I am almost 6 months later with a well system that from what i can tell was never disinfected thoroughly my wife has called the office to come out see the problem but nothing in that time I had already started researching everything about my system because and sorry for the sob story but I wanted to give the situation I am in so I don't look like a moron and not prepared cause I really no choice I am going through savings unemployed tired cause I don't get much sleep researching nonstop finishing the house and dealing with stuff I paid others to do right I am frustrated that I have to keep spending money I am not able to replace because it wasn't done right to begin with.

Alright I will be doing a disinfection of the well and I figured while I am doing that I would plug the outlet nozzle spin the tank 180° and slide south so bottom inlet nozzle is the only water infeed and outfield. I am very interested in just removing that rust bucket that I am sure is part of the iron problem from just looking at the exterior weld quality and dents the nozzles and I doubt the roots have penetraion or fused sidewalls. I am interested in getting a csv but I'm limited in funds and I am not sure if I would have to remove anything that requires lifting the line out to be able to use the whole system can't afford to be sold something that may or may not work at this point. I even considered emailing the company cause the website says they're in Texas. And see if anyone mind doing a video call of how I plan to disinfect and change the lines. I ramble too much. Here are pictures of crude poorly drawn present setup and proposed and pictures of the system in shop.
I hope I did it correctly. And I appreciate yall for sticking with me if you made it this far.

Update:
I apologize I meant to ask if I plug the outlet and just use the one in front as the inlet with the tee that has a drain that it didn't have already another gauge to backup the one on AVC and would I need another pcv since there isn't one at tank? Also does anyone have a preferred way of testing the solution for total chlorine residual I don't want to just rely on smell. Also the water systems council has some literature they referenced from what I could see a well drilling company that use vinegar keep the pH at the level to not lose purity of chlorine. Is there any validity in that cause that was the only place I found that ever used and I am only guessing if it is its because it's used by professionals that are trained and not mentioned in a setting that ends up getting a homeowner in a situation that may hurt him or family. It does give cautions to not mix together above ground but contradicts that by having set up buckets ready to mix to flood the well to make artifical head to deep clean. I plan to do the 200 ppm but I am going to let that sit after circulating until I reach the 200 for a bit longer cause I have a pex manifold and from what their literature recommends is 200ppm for only 3 hours. Since the lines I can only assume were never flushed since I am certain he never disinfected I plan to let well sit for 8 before introducing the solution into the water lines manifold and water heater. I won't ramble about how my plumber did. I hope to have all that done in attic while the well sits. Will that damage the parts inside pump. One more thing will that cycle stop valve need anything changed from my current system if I were to just purchase the valve alone? Cause I may purchase that so it can be in place. Will it get damaged if it is in disenfection? The attachment are in post below.
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Andre Martinez

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I apologize I meant to ask if I plug the outlet and just use the one in front as the inlet with the tee that has a drain that it didn't have already another gauge to backup the one on AVC and would I need another pcv since there isn't one at tank? Also does anyone have a preferred way of testing the solution for total chlorine residual I don't want to just rely on smell. Also the water systems council has some literature they referenced from what I could see a well drilling company that use vinegar keep the pH at the level to not lose purity of chlorine. Is there any validity in that cause that was the only place I found that ever used and I am only guessing if it is its because it's used by professionals that are trained and not mentioned in a setting that ends up getting a homeowner in a situation that may hurt him or family. It does give cautions to not mix together above ground but contradicts that by having set up buckets ready to mix to flood the well to make artifical head to deep clean. I plan to do the 200 ppm but I am going to let that sit after circulating until I reach the 200 for a bit longer cause I have a pex manifold and from what their literature recommends is 200ppm for only 3 hours. Since the lines I can only assume were never flushed since I am certain he never disinfected I plan to let well sit for 8 before introducing the solution into the water lines manifold and water heater. I won't ramble about how my plumber did. I hope to have all that done in attic while the well sits. Will that damage the parts inside pump. One more thing will that cycle stop valve need anything changed from my current system if I were to just purchase the valve alone? Cause I may purchase that so it can be in place. Will it get damaged if it is in disenfection?
 

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I assume they installed a galvanized type tank because you have iron that needs to be aerated. Otherwise no one uses the old galvanized tank method anymore. Switching to a diaphragm/bladder style tank so you could use a CSV would probably cause a bigger iron problem.

Galvanized tanks need water going in one side and out the other. However, I do not see a check valve with a Schrader attached on the inlet side of the tank? This could be out by the well or just where I cannot see it, but there needs to be a check valve with a Schrader, as that is how the tank gets its air charge. There is an Air Volume Control on the side of the tank to let out the excess air, which makes me think there is a check and Schrader somewhere I cannot see?

For a galvanized tank to get a proper air charge automatically, there needs to be a bleeder orifice about 5' down the well, a check valve with Schrader on the inlet side of the tank, and an AVC on the tanks side to let out the excess air. Anyone of these parts that is missing or not working properly will cause the tank to get waterlogged and will cycle the pump to death quickly. If any of these parts are missing or not working the only way to make a galvanized tank work is to manually air up the tank with a compressor on a regular basis.

Sounds like iron is your problem. You can get a water test and learn how to deal with it. Shocking the well works but needs to be done regularly. They make pellet chlorinators that drop a pellet down the well anytime the pump is running. You can also use the Sulfur Eliminator that works by aerating the water down the well.

If you didn't have iron to deal with, a diaphragm/bladder tank and a CSV would make your life much easier and deliver strong constant pressure to the house. Many times the Sulfur Eliminator does the job and allows you to do away with the galvanized tank and switch to a diaphragm tank where you can also use a Cycle Stop Valve.
 

Andre Martinez

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Yes sir I am aware of have a big iron problem and have been dealing with it for these last few months. That is why I am doing disinfection which I included in the reply that followed my post. I will edit my post to include that I apologize I don't know why I didn't just edit the first.
 

Reach4

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I did not follow all of your post. You seemed angry at somebody, but I don't need to know about that.

Anyway, you might consider adapting some of the stuff from my sanitizing writeup. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ It is written mainly for bottom feeding wells, with a pitless involved, but let me point out some key things.

Chlorine bleach is much more effective at lower pH. That can be overdone, but as long as you don't pour bleach directly into vinegar, you should be ok. Flooding volume is important to make the sanitizing last longer.

Measure pH on the recirculating solution. Measure chlorine levels on the recirculating solution. After the well is done, sanitize the rust of your plumbing including water heater and hot water lines.

I filter my recirculating water. I am not sure how important that is, but it makes me feel better.

For wells big enough to pass pellets, there are chlorine tablets that will sink to the bottom and release chlorine. This seems important for top-feeding wells.
 

Andre Martinez

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I did not follow all of your post. You seemed angry at somebody, but I don't need to know about that.

Anyway, you might consider adapting some of the stuff from my sanitizing writeup. https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ It is written mainly for bottom feeding wells, with a pitless involved, but let me point out some key things.

Chlorine bleach is much more effective at lower pH. That can be overdone, but as long as you don't pour bleach directly into vinegar, you should be ok. Flooding volume is important to make the sanitizing last longer.

Measure pH on the recirculating solution. Measure chlorine levels on the recirculating solution. After the well is done, sanitize the rust of your plumbing including water heater and hot water lines.

I filter my recirculating water. I am not sure how important that is, but it makes me feel better.

For wells big enough to pass pellets, there are chlorine tablets that will sink to the bottom and release chlorine. This seems important for top-feeding wells.

Not mad just very irritated as it seems I can't catch a break one thing after another and I apologize for passing it on in my comments.

However, thanks very much for your response I considered filtering as well to keep from recirculating the same crud as it is pulled from water I have a good amount of pleated filters I have accumulated since starting so as to clean and reuse. Been using barkeepers friend but just going to get a pound of its main ingredient. I have a pretty good maintenance schedule of the pre-filter system but I am hoping the disenfection will shorten the need for changeouts cause right now I can get 3 at most days before they clog and need to be replaced and cleaned. I do have the 4.5 x 20 big filters inside the garage at the entry to filter with another 5 micron pre and kdf in second and I believe the 3rd is just carbon block. Since this setup I have bad minimal iron discoloration in toilets and the big filter pre filter is lasting longer. Before needing to change its been a crazy few months to say the least. I will get back to you after I go over and absorb your sanitizing post. Thanks
 

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A big jar of Iron Out crystals is good for cleaning rust and softeners. Some add that to the brine tank routinely. Some add the better-smelling citric acid.
 

Andre Martinez

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I assume they installed a galvanized type tank because you have iron that needs to be aerated. Otherwise no one uses the old galvanized tank method anymore. Switching to a diaphragm/bladder style tank so you could use a CSV would probably cause a bigger iron problem.

Galvanized tanks need water going in one side and out the other. However, I do not see a check valve with a Schrader attached on the inlet side of the tank? This could be out by the well or just where I cannot see it, but there needs to be a check valve with a Schrader, as that is how the tank gets its air charge. There is an Air Volume Control on the side of the tank to let out the excess air, which makes me think there is a check and Schrader somewhere I cannot see?

For a galvanized tank to get a proper air charge automatically, there needs to be a bleeder orifice about 5' down the well, a check valve with Schrader on the inlet side of the tank, and an AVC on the tanks side to let out the excess air. Anyone of these parts that is missing or not working properly will cause the tank to get waterlogged and will cycle the pump to death quickly. If any of these parts are missing or not working the only way to make a galvanized tank work is to manually air up the tank with a compressor on a regular basis.

Sounds like iron is your problem. You can get a water test and learn how to deal with it. Shocking the well works but needs to be done regularly. They make pellet chlorinators that drop a pellet down the well anytime the pump is running. You can also use the Sulfur Eliminator that works by aerating the water down the well.

If you didn't have iron to deal with, a diaphragm/bladder tank and a CSV would make your life much easier and deliver strong constant pressure to the house. Many times the Sulfur Eliminator does the job and allows you to do away with the galvanized tank and switch to a diaphragm tank where you can also use a Cycle Stop Valve.

Yes sir I have been dealing with the iron problem and researching how to get it under control which has led me to where I am now preparing to do a disenfection that was not done after he installed. At the time of install I was ignorant of well water related issues so and was trying to finish interior work of house. It didn't catch my attention until after when I noticed the water in toilets was leaving red stains which I immediately called well guy he never came out but I was already looking into what the causes and figured I'd buy filters while I wait for well guy to give me an idea of what we should do. Got them installed worked fine for a couple weeks then needed to change the pre-filter. Long story short he never showed I researched bought another set but the 4.5 x 20 size and installed where service goes to house and a spin down with siliphos balls that really seem to break down the iron but since it's right before the small filters they clog too quick now I have to change every 3 days or so. But the big filters have been maintaining since I filter before that set. I am hoping that with this disenfection it will be a lot better in terms of the iron.

So the tank is what aerates the water? There is no check valve at the tank there's only one at the well as it 90's down to ground but it doesn't have a snifter. I don't know what's in the water line cause I do not want to mess with the seal until I begin to work on shock. Is there any particular reason the tank needs to be in one out the other? Is it for aeration? I couldn't place a check and snifter online before tee to tank?
 

Andre Martinez

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Not unless there is a bleeder in the well. If the well was piped for a hydro-pneumatic tank and the well is far from the tank, they might have put everything in the well casing.
The well is at most 10 ft away from the tank that's taking into account the pipe run underground and back up. Like I mentioned before there is only 1 check above ground and the pcv is there as well on the well cap. I don't know what's inside cause I don't even have a drill log and he hasn't even filed it with state. I've checked twice and he drilled it last year.
 

LLigetfa

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Also, your picture shows a check valve at the wellhead so adding one at the tank would be pointless. Have you checked to see where the water level is in the tank to confirm the air volume is maintained? When the pump cycles, do you ever hear air come out from the AVC?
 

Andre Martinez

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Also, your picture shows a check valve at the wellhead so adding one at the tank would be pointless. Have you checked to see where the water level is in the tank to confirm the air volume is maintained? When the pump cycles, do you ever hear air come out from the AVC?

Water level is about 1/4 distance to top weld seam. My well guy finally showed up today and said that he only installed just the check because the snifters tend to leak and are all but useless. He installed 2 bleeders in the well line which he assured were better option then Schrader. And he explained why I wouldn't be able to just use the one nozzle inlet on tank because it would cause an air problem in house lines. I still do see how air would be introduced if the components installed for the same air control would not be able to do the same job essentially or maybe a little better by having only one outlet providing head pressure for even longer before pump cycles and fills which causes the waterlogged problem as it is now. I just overthink too much I am not a professional and I will leave as is but still need a drain installed. Which I may install in the outlet side. Do I need that valve there if I have a bypass that is directly upstream?
 
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LLigetfa

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He installed 2 bleeders in the well line which he assured were better option then Schrader.
Correct. The topmost bleeder works just like a snifter so no snifter required at the check valve. The distance between the two bleeders provides a measured amount of air on every pump cycle. I have to assume the pressure was not low when you checked the water level in the tank. That is how it is supposed to be; compressing the air as the pressure gets higher. If the airmaker system cannot maintain the desired level of air, then you can replace the simple check valve with one that can have a snifter added so that more air is introduced at every pump cycle.

I don't understand your concern about having a separate inlet and outlet on the tank?
 

Andre Martinez

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Correct. The topmost bleeder works just like a snifter so no snifter required at the check valve. The distance between the two bleeders provides a measured amount of air on every pump cycle. I have to assume the pressure was not low when you checked the water level in the tank. That is how it is supposed to be; compressing the air as the pressure gets higher. If the airmaker system cannot maintain the desired level of air, then you can replace the simple check valve with one that can have a snifter added so that more air is introduced at every pump cycle.

I don't understand your concern about having a separate inlet and outlet on the tank?

Not really a concern just was wondering why it would be a problem to only use the one as I see on many other layouts which I am assuming is only possible if using bladder tanks. Just trying to make sense of it in my own mind that's all. Thanks for your input and help I will be doing the disinfection this week sometime I finally received the test strips and have the plumbing material needed to make corrections to add a drain to manifold system and correcting the cold and hot water inlet and outlet of water heater that was installed crossed. Just to be sure I will make sure that they just didn't swap the dip tube before I do make the change.
 

Bannerman

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Since air is being added to the water before the pressure tank, separate inlet and outlet fittings to/from the tank will ensure the air will enter and remain in the pressure tank instead of flowing on to the home's fixtures.

With a bladder/diaphragm tank, air will not be added to the incoming water as the compressed air charge will remain trapped in the air chamber on the alternate side of the bladder/diaphragm. As the air is not in contact with the water, a single In/Out connection may be utilized.
 
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