Water heater elements blowing out every week...

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Ballvalve

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Well water, Sierra mountains. Clear, odorless and great taste. Problem is water heater elements are blowing out very often - heavy lime or calcium crusted. High watt or low watt density, no matter. TDS - PPM is at 213. Some of this must be the low quality of elements these days, as mine used to go at least a year. Most are from Vietnam or China, the Mexican ones seem a bit better. Can't find a US made one. Would a water softener at the water heater inlet work? Don't want to treat all the water. How much calcium in the water is too much and should be treated?
 

Bannerman

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A softener maybe connected to the WH supply only which will result in the cold water to faucets and appliances to remain hard. A softener will remove calcium and magnesium which are the minerals that most cause hardness and scaling.

Any water with more than 0 grains per gallon hardness is technically 'hard' but often a softener is not considered unless issues are experienced. As you have been experiencing a scale problem which is leading to frequent equipment failure, it appears a softener would be the appropriate course of treatment.

TDS is not a hardness measurement so the hardness of your raw water will need to be determined. A Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit is the usual recommended hardness test method. When the water is sourced from a private well, a lab test is recommended to determine other minerals and metals such as iron and manganese that will also need to be considered to determine the appropriate softener capacity.

How much water is used on average? If unknown, how many residents?
 

Sarg

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You have something very unusual happening .
Do you have the ability to check your electrical system with a multimeter ?
It almost sounds like you may have the wrong elements for the unit.
 

Reach4

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The fold-back low-density elements are supposed to be more reliable, spreading out the heat production. You knew that.

The softener makes sense in preventing the hardness material from coating and insulating the elements. However I wouldn't think two weeks would be that long. When you pull the bad element, is there a significant crust of hardness materials already?

I expect you have already checked the incoming voltage. If you are using 208 volt elements, you could go to 240 volt elements.

https://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-parts-uv12904-element-240v4500w-uv12904/i/G6920095/ and https://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-parts-uv12910-element-240v4500w-uv12910/i/G6919824/ are two of several that say United States.
 
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Ballvalve

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A softener maybe connected to the WH supply only which will result in the cold water to faucets and appliances to remain hard. A softener will remove calcium and magnesium which are the minerals that most cause hardness and scaling.

Any water with more than 0 grains per gallon hardness is technically 'hard' but often a softener is not considered unless issues are experienced. As you have been experiencing a scale problem which is leading to frequent equipment failure, it appears a softener would be the appropriate course of treatment.

TDS is not a hardness measurement so the hardness of your raw water will need to be determined. A Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit is the usual recommended hardness test method. When the water is sourced from a private well, a lab test is recommended to determine other minerals and metals such as iron and manganese that will also need to be considered to determine the appropriate softener capacity.

How much water is used on average? If unknown, how many residents?
A softener maybe connected to the WH supply only which will result in the cold water to faucets and appliances to remain hard. A softener will remove calcium and magnesium which are the minerals that most cause hardness and scaling.

Any water with more than 0 grains per gallon hardness is technically 'hard' but often a softener is not considered unless issues are experienced. As you have been experiencing a scale problem which is leading to frequent equipment failure, it appears a softener would be the appropriate course of treatment.

TDS is not a hardness measurement so the hardness of your raw water will need to be determined. A Hach 5B Total Hardness test kit is the usual recommended hardness test method. When the water is sourced from a private well, a lab test is recommended to determine other minerals and metals such as iron and manganese that will also need to be considered to determine the appropriate softener capacity.

How much water is used on average? If unknown, how many residents?

3 persons. Normal use outside this water heater being used with a circulator pump to heat a radiant floor zone in the winter. Therefore there are times when the elements are on for long periods. l Also I have rewired the unit to use both elements simultaneously. One 3500 and one 4500 watt element. Can you recommend a mail in water test? Previous test was long ago, but this is a very remote area and unlikely that anything has changed - unless drought this year has influenced hardness. Water was quite hard in that test, but all else was in range. No iron. I would guess a small softener would suffice - can you say what size or brand is correct? Thanks
 

Ballvalve

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You have something very unusual happening .
Do you have the ability to check your electrical system with a multimeter ?
It almost sounds like you may have the wrong elements for the unit.

I check this heater in all ways possible often, and find no issues electrically. Recently changed the anode and have tried several size, brands and styles of elements. I re-wired it to run at 2x25 amp circuits with both elements on together, since it heats a radiant floor zone. Tried every temperature combo without results. This unit has always used a few elements in the winter, but now it eats them like peanuts. Stray electric current? Can't find any. Broken dip tube? But that should not cause both to blow. I suspect part of it is Vietnamese no name CAMCO elements that are visibly smaller in sheath size and gauge, but Rheem elements die too.
 

Ballvalve

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The fold-back low-density elements are supposed to be more reliable, spreading out the heat production. You knew that.

The softener makes sense in preventing the hardness material from coating and insulating the elements. However I wouldn't think two weeks would be that long. When you pull the bad element, is there a significant crust of hardness materials already?

I expect you have already checked the incoming voltage. If you are using 208 volt elements, you could go to 240 volt elements.

https://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-parts-uv12904-element-240v4500w-uv12904/i/G6920095/ and https://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-parts-uv12910-element-240v4500w-uv12910/i/G6919824/ are two of several that say United States.

I have a ball valve in the drain and so can run a coat hanger into the unit. I can pull out a few quarts of lime scale flakes a month in the winter. The elements are looking like stalactites. Although when they blowout and you pull them out most of it falls off. Worst part are the fold back elements. when they fail, they unwind and one needs to put a foot on the water heater and pull until they straighten out or drop inside. It's a blast! Been changing these wet for decades, no time to drain this so often. For awhile I had success with cheap high watt density elements - I guessed that the quick and intense heat caused the element to expand enough to crack the crust off. No longer so.

Thanks for the links, I had not seen those at ZORO - I just got a few Rheems but they were a Mexican model. Not sure if $30 toward a USA element is better spent on a softener? Be a fun quality test though.
 

Reach4

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Softeners are nice. I would go that way.

You could make a "dry well" for the drainage; I think you have the digger. There are differing opinions on how the brine is for the septic.
 

Bannerman

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National Labs offer a Standard Well package.

http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

You may want to check your incoming voltage to ensure it is correct.

Our still under warranty electric oven recently stopped working. When the technician arrived, we found the incoming voltage was 254 volts. He said there have been failures of numerous 240 volt appliances including clothes dryers and WHs in my town due to excessive voltage. I called our local utility who sent a technician last Friday who confirmed my incoming voltage was too high. Checking other other nearby transformers confirmed the feed voltage to each was too high which he said he would investigate. After experiencing a brief power outage Saturday morning, my voltage is now within a reasonable variance of 240 so I anticipate the source of the issue was corrected and appliance failures in my neighborhood will be reduced.
 
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Ballvalve

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National Labs offer a Standard Well package.

http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

You may want to check your incoming voltage to ensure it is correct.

Our still under warranty electric oven recently stopped working. When the technician arrived, we found the incoming voltage was 254 volts. He said there have been failures of numerous 240 volt appliances including clothes dryers and WHs in my town due to excessive voltage. I called our local utility who sent a technician last Friday who confirmed the voltage was too high. Checking other other nearby transformers confirmed the feed voltage to each was too high which he said he would investigate. After experiencing a brief power outage Saturday morning, my voltage is now within a reasonable variance of 240 so I anticipate the source of the issue was corrected and appliance failures in my neighborhood will be reduced.

Looks like a good kit for the cost. Thanks. Voltage is always @ 239 , but without a recording meter one doesn't know what really goes on all day.
 

Ballvalve

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Softeners are nice. I would go that way.

You could make a "dry well" for the drainage; I think you have the digger. There are differing opinions on how the brine is for the septic.

I live on the edge of a cliff, and have a drain from the utility room to daylight. It occurs to me that since I have recirculating hot water, the softener would need to accommodate that, and also the curious fact that the water can make several passes through the softener. I have zero experience with a softener and resist another piece of equipment to maintain and misfunction.
 

Bannerman

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The softener will only soften the fresh cold water that enters the WH. The recirculating hot water will not be entering the softener.
 

Ballvalve

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The softener will only soften the fresh cold water that enters the WH. The recirculating hot water will not be entering the softener.
I circulate water through a slab as the thermostat calls for heat. Therefore when the pump is on, hot water is drawn from the unit, through the floor and back to the heater. So the water could make a loop for some hours and enter the water heater at about 100+ degrees F. I see on line that there are softeners made for water to 150' F so this has been addressed. Probably at a great cost. I don't want to drink the softened water, as we have bottled water quality now - therefore treatment of the incoming cold water won't work for me. It is a passive radiant system and somewhat complicated to explain.
 

Reach4

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So the water could make a loop for some hours and enter the water heater at about 100+ degrees F.
Put a check valve on the output of the softener., and put a thermal expansion tank between the WH colder and the check valve. The Therm-X-Trol is good for some elevated temperatures. See https://www.amtrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/9017-112-03_19-MC10007-Sizing-TXT.pdf including page 1 column 2.

The check valve protects the softener tank from the elevated temperature and pressures. The expansion tank keeps the pressures down below the pressure that that the temperature and pressure relief valve on the WH will open.
 

Bannerman

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As I understand it, your water heater is supplying hot water for heating the slab in an open loop configuration. Because that same hot water is used for bathing, laundry, dishwashing etc, fresh water will be regularly entering the water heater to replace the hot water as it is consumed. When the water feeding the WH is softened, the WH will be filled with soft water, including the water circulating through your heating system loop.

A water softener removes calcium and magnesium minerals which were dissolved into the water when the water was in the ground in contact with rock. Once those hardness minerals have been removed, they will continue to be removed so there will be no benefit for the water to reenter the softener. Although there will be some initial mineral scale within the WH and piping, the softened water will slowly dissolve that scale back into the water, for it to be eliminated through regular hot water use.

With no new scale being formed and with the existing scale being dissolved and eliminated, your hot water system will eventually become scale free. How long that will take will be dependant on the amount of scale now present.

There are some industrial applications where hot water must be softened. In those situations, specialty tanks, valves etc will be utilized as even a relatively small amount of pressurzed hot water can damage a fiberglass media tank as evidenced in post #5 & #14 at the link below.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/funny-and-interesting-pictures.88495/
 
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