Is this ferrous iron or iron bacteria? Does it create wispies if allowed to settle?

[Ĝan Ŭesli Starling]

...my research indicates it mostly becomes introduced to a well when work is done like if the pump is replaced or some other maintenance, or if the well isn't sealed with a good cap.

Other kinds of bacteria, yes. Iron oxidizing bacteria from the surface, for instance. Iron and sulfate reducing bacteria, however (at least according to every source I've so far read) are reported as naturally occurring in most ground water to at least some degree. Requiring neither air nor light, but only moderate temperatures plus sufficient iron or sulfate to maintain their metabolisms, they are near omnipresent.

As a career test engineer with much experience of various other kinds of pumps, may I propose a hypothesis? Your pump which needed replacing, prior to its final demise, had been for some time operating with much reduced efficiency.

As such, it had likely been running warm. Its waste heat warmed the water inside your well sufficiently for the naturally occurring (and still present) bacteria to bloom and thrive. Like how algae blooms in lakes during summer. A few scant extra degrees may have been all they'd have needed. Shock treatment wiped out the established colony; and now your brand new, efficiently running pump leaves them sluggish for being chill.

It is for this same reason that untreated water from my own well runs clear from the tap, then upon being allowed warmth and air, slowly develops an orange tinge.

 

[FruitfulPanda]

Other kinds of bacteria, yes. Iron oxidizing bacteria from the surface, for instance. Iron and sulfate reducing bacteria, however (at least according to every source I've so far read) are reported as naturally occurring in most ground water to at least some degree. Requiring neither air nor light, but only moderate temperatures plus sufficient iron or sulfate to maintain their metabolisms, they are near omnipresent.

As a career test engineer with much experience of various other kinds of pumps, may I propose a hypothesis? Your pump which needed replacing, prior to its final demise, had been for some time operating with much reduced efficiency.

As such, it had likely been running warm. Its waste heat warmed the water inside your well sufficiently for the naturally occurring (and still present) bacteria to bloom and thrive. Like how algae blooms in lakes during summer. A few scant extra degrees may have been all they'd have needed. Shock treatment wiped out the established colony; and now your brand new, efficiently running pump leaves them sluggish for being chill.

It is for this same reason that untreated water from my own well runs clear from the tap, then upon being allowed warmth and air, slowly develops an orange tinge.

Thank you very much for that information. I shouldn't have made that blanket statement. I was previously aware that there are both iron reducing and oxidizing bacteria but did not know that was a difference between them. Your hypothesis makes a lot of sense. My water doesn't really develop an orange tinge though. It stays very nearly clear and just seems to leave a bit on the bottom of a glass.

After seeing your post I did a search of IRB versus IOB in this forum and I found a post by you from about a month ago about iron ochre bacteria. Of particular interest to me is water pro's reply, currently last in the thread:

Because most wells are oxygen depleted environment, IOB are much less common. The rule of thumb is if your water stinks and you the iron staining is slimy, you most probably have IRB and ferrous iron is the main component. If iron staining is course to the touch with no odor, you most probably have IOB and ferric iron is the main component.

My water doesn't stink. If I inhale deeply next to untreated water I can smell the metallic smell of the iron but other than that there's really nothing. My iron staining used to be slimy (as seen in my toilet tank) so perhaps I did have a better environment for the IRB and now with the pump running less hot the IOB is far more noticeable even though I don't have much ferric iron since the water comes out clear.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Thank you very much for that information. I shouldn't have made that blanket statement. I was previously aware that there are both iron reducing and oxidizing bacteria but did not know that was a difference between them. Your hypothesis makes a lot of sense.

I am skeptical -- suspecting that oxygen in the absence of bacteria might cause a similar reaction.

 

[Dis360]

I decided to upgrade my filter setup. I built this about 8 months ago, added the spin down only 3 weeks ago and was not happy with the whole setup.

Old setup: (30 micron string filter, then two 5 micron carbon)

I am very happy with this.

New Setup: (50 micron spin down, 20 micron pleated, and the other 2 pods are empty right now).

My water no longer has wispies in it or any sediment at the bottom, this is about a week old, the water still turns hazy but I assume that due to the 4ppm ferrous iron.

For the other 2 pods, I purchased a 1 micro pleated filter and and empty housing to load with KDF85 and possibly GAC to control the iron and anything else it captures. Most of the premade KDF filters come with about 15% KDF media and 85% granular activated carbon by volume. I'm not sure if carbon is required or recommended as part of the KDF media treatment or is simply there to cover a wider range of application for different customer needs. I don't know if I want to use GAC because I don't have chlorine or a bad smell/taste to my water and if I add it to the canister with the KDF media, ill have to replace the carbon about every 6 months due to potential bacteria growth compared to the KDF alone could last much longer. I am also curious if I should put the KDF/GAC as the 2nd filter in line then the 1 micron pleated or the other way around.

Anyway just an update to the thread as I have improved my water quality in that there are no more wispies or visible sediment in water samples.

 

[Reach4]

After putting your UV into action full time, I would sanitize all of the plumbing through and after the UV. You might be able to flow sanitizing solution into your spindown filter drain with a small pump. The WH has big volume, so account for that in your procedure.

 

[Dis360]

After putting your UV into action full time, I would sanitize all of the plumbing through and after the UV. You might be able to flow sanitizing solution into your spindown filter drain with a small pump. The WH has big volume, so account for that in your procedure.

That's a good idea I'm sure the inside of the UV tube is not so great, maybe I can remove the filters from all the pods and send sanitizing solution through the whole setup. The UV lamp is currently unplugged because the ballast blew a capacitor but I soldered a new one on the board and now the bulb is burned out, so I've got another on the way.

Are you talking about the blow out valve on the spin down has high flow, when you said "The WH has big volume" ? so watch out that I don't blow the sanitizing solution out of it too quickly?

 

[Reach4]

Are you talking about the blow out valve on the spin down has high flow, when you said "The WH has big volume" ? so watch out that I don't blow the sanitizing solution out of it too quickly?

No. The spin down drain seemed like a place in your photo that you could slowly introduce solution. A higher-diameter input, such as a drain valve, would be preferable. Maybe the drain valve at the pressure tank would be used.

When you put in disinfecting solution, you want to kill anything that is in the WH (water heater). If you slowly add solution to a 40 gallon tank, or so, it would take a lot of flow to get that water chlorine up to killing levels. Turn the WH off. So you would either have to recirculate a long time, or drain the water out, and add enough solution to fill the WH, and run solution out of every hot tap. Run solution out of every cold tap, and use the high range chlorine strips to see that the effective chlorine solution made it to each faucet at a high-enough level.

 

[Bannerman]

now the bulb is burned out,

Fluorescent bulbs loose intensity over time. Since the UV sanitizer's purpose is to ensure the safety of the water your family consumes, to ensure sufficient UV output, the bulb is supposed to be replaced annually even though it still continues to function.

 

[Dis360]

No. The spin down drain seemed like a place in your photo that you could slowly introduce solution.

Got it thanks, I didn't think of using that to introduce sanitizer. When I have sanitized my well in the past, loading it up with chlorine, I have introduced it that way, getting it into the pipes and letting it sit over night, this was the based on the instructions for the well safe sanitizer but at the time I didn't have good chlorine strips to know if I reached an appropriate PPM of chlorine but do I now. With that method I can't easily increase the PPM if needed or properly get the water heater sanitized. The idea of introducing at the spin down outlet is great.

My water heater is way past it's prime and corroding inside sending flakes of rust down the hot water line periodically. So I purchased a tankless water heater and will be installing it soon, once I get that done I'm going to replace about 50 feet (maybe more) of the hot water line since it's so junked up with rust particles stuck to the inside of the pipe. After I replace the water heater I'm going to sanitize the lines.

 

[Dis360]

I completed my KDF85/GAC filter, used 5 lbs. of KDF and about 3.5 lbs. of GAC.

To construct my #2 filter (of 3 stages), I purchased 10 lbs. of KDF85 media, 5 lbs. of drinking water coconut shell granular activated carbon and an empty 20" x 4.5" cartridge.

*KDF85 media

*GAC

Flushed the filter for about 15 minutes and then water ran clear.

I did a 1 second iron test (0-50 ppm):
0 ppm

Then did a 30 second iron test (will read much lower)
again 0 ppm

Needless to say I am very happy with this. This water was taken a couple of days ago, crystal clear, no sediment, smells clean and tastes great.

I plan on buying another empty 20" cartridge and having it ready to go with fresh KDF and GAC. As I understand it the KDF media can be cleaned and reused a number of times. I also have a 1 micron pleated filter that I will install in the 3rd pod soon. My total pressure drop between the 20 micron and the KDF/GAC is about 2psi, which I think is respectable.

Total cost for this filter was:
Empty cartridge (reusable)=$23
5 lbs. KDF (reusable)=$45
3.5 lbs. GAC=$20

 

[Water Pro]

I completed my KDF85/GAC filter, used 5 lbs. of KDF and about 3.5 lbs. of GAC.

To construct my #2 filter (of 3 stages), I purchased 10 lbs. of KDF85 media, 5 lbs. of drinking water coconut shell granular activated carbon and an empty 20" x 4.5" cartridge.

*KDF85 media
View attachment 71974

View attachment 71972

View attachment 71971


*GAC
View attachment 71969

Flushed the filter for about 15 minutes and then water ran clear.
View attachment 71975

View attachment 71976


I did a 1 second iron test (0-50 ppm):
0 ppm
View attachment 71970

Then did a 30 second iron test (will read much lower)
again 0 ppm
View attachment 71973

Needless to say I am very happy with this. This water was taken a couple of days ago, crystal clear, no sediment, smells clean and tastes great.View attachment 71977

I plan on buying another empty 20" cartridge and having it ready to go with fresh KDF and GAC. As I understand it the KDF media can be cleaned and reused a number of times. I also have a 1 micron pleated filter that I will install in the 3rd pod soon. My total pressure drop between the 20 micron and the KDF/GAC is about 2psi, which I think is respectable.

Total cost for this filter was:
Empty cartridge (reusable)=$23
5 lbs. KDF (reusable)=$45
3.5 lbs. GAC=$20

very interesting solution. I've seen similar filters used at seasonal camps where space is limited. In the long run, you'll have to weigh the cost vs longevity. you could employ a series of valves to allow you to reverse flow (backwash) periodically.

 

[Taylorjm]

I decided to upgrade my filter setup. I built this about 8 months ago, added the spin down only 3 weeks ago and was not happy with the whole setup.

Anyway just an update to the thread as I have improved my water quality in that there are no more wispies or visible sediment in water samples.

If you are having issues with iron bacteria, you don't want to use a pleated filter. You should use a gradient density filter. I used the gradient density ones and just switched to trying a pleated filter as my first sediment filter. Within a few days my water was a light yellow/orange with the yellow gunk in the bottom if it was sitting, just like yours. Switched back to the gradient density and everything is clear. Both were 5 micron. I read that iron bacteria loves the pleated filters and will grow on the filters where it doesn't like the gradient density ones. I believe the pleated ones are usually cellulose and the gradient density is a melt blown spun type of plastic and the iron bacteria can't grow on them. Supposedly the pleated ones shouldn't be used on a well for that reason but I don't know if that's true or not.

Also, I use a kdf/carbon filter as well on my drinking water lines. Those lines were clear of the yellow water and gunk on the bottom after it ran through the filter. Once I got rid of the pleated filter and went back to a gradient density filter, the water was clear that didn't run through the kdf/carbon filter. I'd try getting rid of that pleated filter and replacing it with a gradient density one and see what your water looks like before the carbon/kdf filter. I think you will be surprised. The bad thing about your kdf/carbon filter is that it's very restrictive, usually only about 3gpm. I have the same sized one and there's no way it would be able to support showers, laundry, etc. That's why I have it on my drinking water lines which are the cold lines on the sinks only.

 

[Reach4]

Both were 5 micron. I read that iron bacteria loves the pleated filters and will grow on the filters

You don't want to use cellulose filters for non-chlorinated water. Use polypropylene , polyester, or similar.

 

[Water Pro]

You don't want to use cellulose filters for non-chlorinated water. Use polypropylene , polyester, or similar.

+1. poly-spun

 

[Taylorjm]

You don't want to use cellulose filters for non-chlorinated water. Use polypropylene , polyester, or similar.

Actually, the pleated filter I used and had the issues was a polyester filter, I had to double check. I don't know exactly what happened, or why, all I know is with the 5 micron pleated filter, my water would turn yellow and have gunk at the bottom if it would sit in the jar for a day, and the water in my toilets was yellow looking. Went back to the 5 micron poly spun filter and don't have the problem. Everything is nice and clear. I assumed I had a cellulose filter, but come to find out it was polyester.

 

[Dis360]

If you are having issues with iron bacteria, you don't want to use a pleated filter. You should use a gradient density filter. I used the gradient density ones and just switched to trying a pleated filter as my first sediment filter. Within a few days my water was a light yellow/orange with the yellow gunk in the bottom if it was sitting, just like yours.

I will keep that in mind if I run into a problem, I haven't used gradient filters but have used depth filters. After my 50 micron stainless spin down , I have the 20 micron pleated filter, the 50 micro spin down has been amazing at taking the load off the 1st filter (20 micron pleated), greatly reduced the speed in which it becomes saturated, the pleated filter is made of 100% polypropylene and not cellulose, I used it due to most information I read pointed towards it being the best for well water, the pleats make the total surface area magnitudes higher than depth filters, the polypropylene is "reusable" and they are chemical and bacteria resistant.

The bad thing about your kdf/carbon filter is that it's very restrictive, usually only about 3gpm. I have the same sized one and there's no way it would be able to support showers, laundry, etc. That's why I have it on my drinking water lines which are the cold lines on the sinks only.

Fortunately I only have a 1 PSI drop with the KDF85/GAC added in, I don't see a noticeable reduction in flow in showers, washer and combinations of those flow no differently than when I bypass my filter system. Since I built my own, there could be differences in the GAC granular size, perhaps how tight its all packed or total incoming PSI (mine is 30-50) differences. I put about 2x to 3x more KDF85 media in mine than most manufactured mixes.

 

[ditttohead]

When it comes to KDF, I highly recommend following the manufacturers design parameters. We have used KDF for decades with great failure and success. The failures are always due to poor design. The successes, we followed the manufacturers recommendations. You should consider doing your system properly in the future with properly sized and designed equipment. With a good water report and properly designed equipment you should get decent water with very little oversight on your part. Literature on KDF Fluid Treatment Water Filter Media (kdfft.com)

For a standard sized house we usually recommend closer to 25-50 pounds of KDF especially when trying to use it for something other than Chlorine reduction.

 

[Taylorjm]

I will keep that in mind if I run into a problem, I haven't used gradient filters but have used depth filters. After my 50 micron stainless spin down , I have the 20 micron pleated filter, the 50 micro spin down has been amazing at taking the load off the 1st filter (20 micron pleated), greatly reduced the speed in which it becomes saturated, the pleated filter is made of 100% polypropylene and not cellulose, I used it due to most information I read pointed towards it being the best for well water, the pleats make the total surface area magnitudes higher than depth filters, the polypropylene is "reusable" and they are chemical and bacteria resistant.



Fortunately I only have a 1 PSI drop with the KDF85/GAC added in, I don't see a noticeable reduction in flow in showers, washer and combinations of those flow no differently than when I bypass my filter system. Since I built my own, there could be differences in the GAC granular size, perhaps how tight its all packed or total incoming PSI (mine is 30-50) differences. I put about 2x to 3x more KDF85 media in mine than most manufactured mixes.

Hope it works for you. Everything I read said not to use pleated filters for a well but you can’t believe everything you read on the internet

 

[Taylorjm]

When I moved into my house I did notice a lot of red/brown, slimy, wispy, stringy stuff floating in the back of the toilets, it was a lot. In addition I learned that the well pump was replaced about 1.5 years prior to moving in. After doing some research I determined this must be iron bacteria and shocked the well with well safe (chlorine tablets & powder). I also installed a UV filter thinking it would kill bacteria, including iron bacteria (don't know if that's true).

View attachment 71179

That seemed to get rid of any future production of red/brown slime in the back of the toilets and I have since shocked the well again, about 5 months later.

I also did a different, more expensive test strip test, one dedicated for iron and other containments before shocking the well a second time. So it's possible my tests aren't accurate enough, but I still don't know if ferrous iron even turns water hazy and leaves those white/brown clumps in the bottom of sitting water.

View attachment 71182

At this point I'm left with some staining on white surfaces, like toilet bowls, washer agitator and this issue with hazy water with weird white/light brown clumps in the bottom only if the water is allowed to sit for 24+ hours.

This is the inside of the first filter pod and that stuff doesn't wash off.
View attachment 71183

You can use toilet bowl cleaner called “the works” to clean your filter housings of the rust. Let it run down the sides and sit for a few minutes and it will wipe away.

 

[Reach4]

You can use toilet bowl cleaner called “the works” to clean your filter housings of the rust. Let it run down the sides and sit for a few minutes and it will wipe away.

I looked at the MSDS:
https://images.homedepot-static.com/catalog/pdfImages/f2/f2450f9f-f527-4720-a8b1-1c504df4f40f.pdf
Main active ingredient 20% hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid).

Don't breath the fumes, but it would probably be effective.