On-Demand Twin-Tank Clack?

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I was informed by one vendor, thus...

"The WS1 Twin can not be set up in a system 14 configuration utilizing both tanks at the same time for higher flow rates. This is only available on commercial softening equipment."

Confusingly, there is an apparent contradiction in this brochure for the PDIMX twin tank softener from Sterling Water Systems. Unmistakable in the photo is a 4-button Clack valve. So by its shape, despite the gray color and Sterling label. The brochure shows a chart with "service" and "peak" flows, where peak is always double the service.

Is it the case, then, that Sterling is offering a proprietary configuration of Clack WS1 valve? What's going on?
 

ditttohead

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Some companies have proprietary valves available that do progressive flow. The 4 button valve EE can do progressive flow but uses an external controller to accomplish this. Service flow is what the systems are rated for and the flow rate that the systems should be designed for. The peak is informational, this indicates what the systems intermittent maximum flow rate recommendation is.
 
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Confusingly, there is an apparent contradiction in this brochure for the PDIMX twin tank softener from Sterling Water Systems...

So I have just got off the phone with Sterling Water Systems, and indeed I did read too much into the brochure's wording. The Clack valve pictured alternates only. It does not flow parallel for increased capacity at any time. And so downsizing with double tanks will not do what I had hoped.
 
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Some companies have proprietary valves available that do progressive flow. The 4 button valve EE can do progressive flow but uses an external controller to accomplish this.

Can you expand on that please? What is progressive flow? What is the make & model of this external controller for the EE? And how does it work? If the long-term works out, I'm not adverse to higher initial expense.
 

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The 'Service' flow rating is the upper flow rate that a given quantity of water softener resin will support while removing hardness to a specific hardness amount. If the flow rate exceeds the Service rate specified for that resin quantity, then hardness leakage through the media is likely to increase.

Because ion exchange does not take place instantaneously, the water must have sufficient contact time with the media for full hardness removal to occur. A larger quantity of media will provide a greater amount of contact surface and as the flow through a larger diameter tank will be across a larger cross section of tank, the flow rate per ft2 will be less, which together will increase the contact time to support a higher flow rate.

Peak flow rate is more of a mechanical limit. Peak flow will ignore the effectiveness of the resin to remove hardness, but will be the maximum flow rate the equipment will support. When considering Peak flow rate specs between equipment brands, compare the pressure loss stated to achieve that peak flow rate. Not all brands use equal pressure loss specs when stating peak flow rate.
 
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Maybe you should tell us what exactly you are trying to accomplish. Is this a residential or commercial application? what is your expected service flow? what is your hardness? how many gallons do you expect to use daily? etc.
 
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Maybe you should tell us what exactly you are trying to accomplish. Is this a residential or commercial application? what is your expected service flow? what is your hardness? how many gallons do you expect to use daily? etc.

Residential ranch style home with 3/4 basement occupied by two adults and having: single bathroom with shower/tub, low-flow toilet, sink; kitchen with sink and dishwasher; laundry with full size washer. Mostly we shower, but sometimes bathe. So, medium/low water use.

Well is 4-inch casement, 42 feet deep. Pump is 1/2 HP, 10 gpm capacity at 20-foot drop. Pressure tank 13 gallons capacity.

Water has (units mg/L): Hardness = 190, Fe = 1.2, Mn = 0.08, Tannin = 0.6. pH = 7.6. Iron and sulfate bacteria are present, as evidenced by biofilm on toilet tank flapper, slow accumulation of feathery orange deposits in a glass of water let stand two days, and initial waft of hydrogen sulfide when any tap first turned on, soon dissipating.

Neighbors mostly have ordinary softener with anti-iron salt. They still get iron staining, however. Not much, but still some. I want a better result. But not at a cost of over-frequent large-volume backwash cycles. I would go with Ecomix C were it not for the iron bacteria issue.

So am wanting more iron reduction than my neighbors achieve with their softener-only systems and lowest possible backwash to be got while doing that. More frequent backwashes of smaller volume to be preferred over fewer ones of large volume.

My floor drain is a 1.25 OD, 80-mesh well point 4 feet tall with its point driven 7 feet to penetrate the water table by 3 inches. All are 304 stainless steel. I have carried this up to 5 feet above floor level with 1.25 inch PVC pipe at 45 degrees slope. An 80-mesh high-volume screen filter at 2 1.5 feet above floor level protects the 80-mesh well point from clogging.

Should that overflow, then there is backup route to sump pump well where foundation drain apertures are 6-inch OD. Should that fill up, the sump pump would come into play. I would prefer that this overflow route not be routinely employed.

The elaborate drain exists to avoid high volume water and brine from damaging my circa 1975 septic tank and drain field. The top of the well-point drain is a cross, so I can add a 2nd such 4-foot long well-point drain a few feet away if proves needful.

So it is that I am kicking around the idea of a dual tank system with smaller tanks. I have had it explained to me that neither Clack nor Fleck are progressive systems. Culligan has one, but their proprietary lock-in offends my open-source nature. I never buy anything by Apple computers for that same reason. I am an engineer and want to maintain this myself.
 
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Reach4

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Well is 4-inch casement, 42 feet deep. Pump is 1/2 HP, 10 gpm capacity at 20-foot drop. Pressure tank 13 gallons capacity.
Without a CSV, your pressure tank should be at least a 44 gallon tank, such as the WX-250.

Does your casing extend above ground? That prevents contamination vs a pit. I understand this is not your focus.
 

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Residential ranch style home with 3/4 basement occupied by two adults and having: single bathroom with shower/tub, low-flow toilet, sink; kitchen with sink and dishwasher; laundry with full size washer. Mostly we shower, but sometimes bathe. So, medium/low water use.

Well is 4-inch casement, 42 feet deep. Pump is 1/2 HP, 10 gpm capacity at 20-foot drop. Pressure tank 13 gallons capacity.

Water has (units mg/L): Hardness = 190, Fe = 1.2, Mn = 0.08, Tannin = 0.6. pH = 7.6. Iron and sulfate bacteria are present, as evidenced by biofilm on toilet tank flapper, slow accumulation of feathery orange deposits in a glass of water let stand two days, and initial waft of hydrogen sulfide when any tap first turned on, soon dissipating.

Neighbors mostly have ordinary softener with anti-iron salt. They still get iron staining, however. Not much, but still some. I want a better result. But not at a cost of over-frequent large-volume backwash cycles. I would go with Ecomix C were it not for the iron bacteria issue.

So am wanting more iron reduction than my neighbors achieve with their softener-only systems and lowest possible backwash to be got while doing that. More frequent backwashes of smaller volume to be preferred over fewer ones of large volume.

My floor drain is a 1.25 OD, 80-mesh well point 4 feet tall with its point driven 7 feet to penetrate the water table by 3 inches. All are 304 stainless steel. I have carried this up to 5 feet above floor level with 1.25 inch PVC pipe at 45 degrees slope. An 80-mesh high-volume screen filter at 2 1.5 feet above floor level protects the 80-mesh well point from clogging.

Should that overflow, then there is backup route to sump pump well where foundation drain apertures are 6-inch OD. Should that fill up, the sump pump would come into play. I would prefer that this overflow route not be routinely employed.

The elaborate drain exists to avoid high volume water and brine from damaging my circa 1975 septic tank and drain field. The top of the well-point drain is a cross, so I can add a 2nd such 4-foot long well-point drain a few feet away if proves needful.

So it is that I am kicking around the idea of a dual tank system with smaller tanks. I have had it explained to me that neither Clack nor Fleck are progressive systems. Culligan has one, but their proprietary lock-in offends my open-source nature. I never buy anything by Apple computers for that same reason. I am an engineer and want to maintain this myself.
hardness (which is comprised of calcium and magnesium) is usually measured in grains per gallon (gpg). the conversion factor is /17.1, giving you a hardness of 11.11 gpg. add 5 gpg for every part of Fe or Mn. so you'll want to program the softener conservatively for around 20 gpg to account for minor fluxuations.
 
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ditttohead

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Fleck and Clack both make progressive flow systems, twin alternating etc... but why? For you application a standard single tank simple system will perform flawlessly. Keep it simple and your system should last 20-30 years with almost no problems. Start adding mini tank so you can do progressive flow, adding twin alternating features... a single tank system properly sized will cost you about $2 more per year in salt over an overly expensive and complex system design. I would estimate the controller to make the Clack valves progressive would add an additional 2-3K for the system, at a couple dollars per year in salt savings, your system would have to last 1500 years to see a ROI.
 
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Without a CSV, your pressure tank should be at least a 44 gallon tank, such as the WX-250.

Does your casing extend above ground? That prevents contamination vs a pit. I understand this is not your focus.

Hm. According to my well installation report, the section for pressure tank says "Diaphram/Bladder, Amtrol, WX250, Capacity 13.0 Gallons". And yes, the casing does extend above ground. Well was drilled 2012-04-05 by Koops Well Drilling.
 

Bannerman

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The WX250 is classed as a 44 gallon tank which offers 13.6 gallons drawdown @ 30/50 psi.

The standard method of referring to the pressure tank size is stating the total tank volume which we then interpret the drawdown will be approx 25% or less of the total volume. By stating only that your tank size is 13 gallons, we assume that to signify the tank drawdown will be approx 3.25 gallons.

The best method to refer to the pressure tank is to state the brand and model number.
 
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